TOPIC: Terrain hindrances?

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Druegar wrote: Then you have a new variation on the same whine: "How come it's always Force?"

Probably - but I think it undercuts the whine a bit given the prevalence of force damage,Wizards have it in basic spells and wands, bards and wizards throug scrolls, and everyone through the horn of blasting.

I guess it comes down to whether the complaint is: there is no way to reduce push damage! (Which seems silly to me), versus: Eldrtich damage is supposed to be this special thing, instead it is the most common damage type in the dungeon! (Which strikes me as at least a logically valid beef).


Hopefully between. Figurine of power cricket, and force damage on push, whining should got away

I agree with Matt that force damage is probably the best option at this point.

As long as Jeff can restrain himself from printing -X Force damage and 1/2 damage Force damage tokens and abilities...cause that would just ruin force damage (like it has for so many other damage types) and "force" TD to change to yet another damage type....

Druegar wrote: Then you have a new variation on the same whine: "How come it's always Force?"

How about this then for a solution to move away from the "Push" or "Force" damage that people whine about.

Make completed rooms worth points. The more points your group earns working through the dungeon. The better - or more reward tokens your group earns at the end. Kinda like the stamp system employed now, just taken to the next level.

This way, if you and your party wants the really good reward token(s) at the end, you have to work to complete the rooms.

Matthew Hayward wrote: Can't we just make push damage force damage to cut the Gordian knot here? Force damage generally isn't resisted, is a common damage type, and I can't think of any token effects that resist it, and it's not "eldritch" so people don't get all grumpy.

I think people will always be grumpy about taking damage when they fail to solve a room.

I don't think calling it anything different will change that.

Now, if you call the damage a type that players believe they "should" be able to resist, now you open the door for even more grumpy people. "Why do I have this shock resist token if I can't resist the shock damage?"

It appears this will continue to be addressed and that is good.

Who knows, it might just be best to call it "Fail Damage"
DM "Unfortunately you've failed to solve the puzzle and must now be punished" "Take 6 points of fail damage"

valetutto wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote: Can't we just make push damage force damage to cut the Gordian knot here? Force damage generally isn't resisted, is a common damage type, and I can't think of any token effects that resist it, and it's not "eldritch" so people don't get all grumpy.

I think people will always be grumpy about taking damage when they fail to solve a room.

I don't think calling it anything different will change that.

Now, if you call the damage a type that players believe they "should" be able to resist, now you open the door for even more grumpy people. "Why do I have this shock resist token if I can't resist the shock damage?"

It appears this will continue to be addressed and that is good.

Who knows, it might just be best to call it "Fail Damage"
DM "Unfortunately you've failed to solve the puzzle and must now be punished" "Take 6 points of fail damage"

So if we ever have an "epic" level, we can tell people they are taking "epic fail damage."

YES!

Rebeg wrote: How about this then for a solution to move away from the "Push" or "Force" damage that people whine about.

Make completed rooms worth points. The more points your group earns working through the dungeon. The better - or more reward tokens your group earns at the end. Kinda like the stamp system employed now, just taken to the next level.

This way, if you and your party wants the really good reward token(s) at the end, you have to work to complete the rooms.

However, at this point aren't we just replicating the Treasure Stamp mechanism?

However, I do like the idea of reversing the psychology.

What if instead we did something like this:

1. At the start of each room or in between rooms, all players take X damage (think of it like Gauntlet hunger damage).

2. If the players solve the room, they get healed X damage.

It does require an extra step of complexity but it does change the "punishment" element to more of a "reward."

Pretty sure that people will complain about taking damage before they can do anything.

Especially if they timed out in the prior room with having a chance to heal.

valetutto wrote: Who knows, it might just be best to call it "Fail Damage"
DM "Unfortunately you've failed to solve the puzzle and must now be punished" "Take 6 points of fail damage"

"Fail" sounds so negative, and could affect people's self-esteem. Maybe something more neutral, like "you're out of time so we have to PUSH you into the next room, so take... Hrm, what should we call it..."

Brad Mortensen wrote:

valetutto wrote: Who knows, it might just be best to call it "Fail Damage"
DM "Unfortunately you've failed to solve the puzzle and must now be punished" "Take 6 points of fail damage"

"Fail" sounds so negative, and could affect people's self-esteem. Maybe something more neutral, like "you're out of time so we have to PUSH you into the next room, so take... Hrm, what should we call it..."

What if we made it cute like

"Puppy and kitty damage!"

or "Hedgehog pokey damage!"

You are chased out of the room by puppies and kitties! Take 16 damage!

Webs would be just as serious as drowning if there was something,lets say a drider in the web killing you and you were stuck. Depending on the difficulty of the room reg/hardcore/nightmare, webs could be quite nasty.

Rebeg wrote:

fishbowldave wrote: There are a few tokens this year that deal with webs, so I would guess that there will be at least 1 room that has a web hindrance.

That would be a given, considering the amount of Drow and Underdark. But if you've played year's past. Webs are not as serious as say drowning. Was a little concerned with the protection from sunlight one.

Glad to see the GMs and Coaches talking in here about how to improve their end. Maybe it will get some streamlining of their jobs taken care of before Gencon so there is less last min. hassle and confusion.

fishbowldave wrote: Webs would be just as serious as drowning if there was something,lets say a drider in the web killing you and you were stuck. Depending on the difficulty of the room reg/hardcore/nightmare, webs could be quite nasty.

Meh.

Webs are a joke because free action effects are too numerous.

Boots of the Marauder are ridiculously overpowered.

You also have the original Boots of Free Action, the Defender set ability, Amulet of the Wind, and the new web-specific tokens like Amulet of Web Striding, Dire Spider Hide Armor, and Ioun Stone Garnet Prism.

Also, since a lot of Web effects end up being Reflex saves, all the stuff that helps Reflex saves also doubles for Web protection.

For the same reason (Free Action being reasonably ubiquitous), Hold spells are fairly useless.

Still not as bad as Sleep effects, which are really pathetic due to the Minotaur Horn of Alertness. ::sighs::

At high levels, Darkrift damage is pretty crappy because of the Topaz Trilliant. And at the highest levels, you need to factor in the Supreme Ring for fire/frost/shock/sonic damage.