TOPIC: Propsal: Hellish Difficulty XP and Treasure

Okay like to through some ideas out there and get people to weigh in.

With the idea of Hellish (Hell) difficulty level the XP would need to be increased. Currently Normal is 1,000 XP and Nightmare is 2,000 XP which theoretically Hellish would be 3,000 XP.

Treasure would be increased, if you do Hellish you get 3 extra treasure pulls for surviving the Hellish difficulty.

Completion tokens you would get the 2 for Nightmare and 1 extra (maybe a new token?).

If there is a difficulty above Nightmare I am against extra rewards for it.

Honestly I feel like its a really bad idea, once you put tangible rewards like more xp (which some people care about a lot more then others) persons of a competitive nature will feel compelled to run it regardless of if they are ready. Then they will complain that TD is trying to force them to X or Y to be competitive. If a 5th difficulty gets added I think it should be for the thrill alone, maybe a unique button or bonus treasure chip but not more xp.

Then leave the rewards the same as Nightmare?

But increase the XP due to the increased risk.

The XP is the same between Hardcore and Nightmare, Nightmare gets extra rewards.

This is my second year, and I did 9 runs. Seven of which were Nightmare. The challenge needs to be ramped up, that I agree with. Not sure if that means fix Nightmare or create a new difficulty.

If there were to be a Hellish Difficulty, I'm with Darkangel. There should not be any extra rewards, the only reward should be bragging rights plus the normal Nightmare completion tokens.

There should be extra experience, but it has to be carefully calculated so as not to jump some directly into player level 5. Right now Nightmare is set up so that you can't hit level 5 until your third year.

-Joshua

Kaledor wrote: Then leave the rewards the same as Nightmare?

But increase the XP due to the increased risk.

The XP is the same between Hardcore and Nightmare, Nightmare gets extra rewards.

IMO more xp would be the bigger problem. Only thing worse would be a unique completion token.

Neither a ramped up nightmare or a potential hellish should have extra rewards beyond the current nightmare rewards. Except perhaps a really cool completion button.

joshua baessler wrote: This is my second year, and I did 9 runs. Seven of which were Nightmare. The challenge needs to be ramped up, that I agree with. Not sure if that means fix Nightmare or create a new difficulty.

If there were to be a Hellish Difficulty, I'm with Darkangel. There should not be any extra rewards, the only reward should be bragging rights plus the normal Nightmare completion tokens.

There should be extra experience, but it has to be carefully calculated so as not to jump some directly into player level 5. Right now Nightmare is set up so that you can't hit level 5 until your third year.

-Joshua

We dragged 4 people with our group that were new players to TD in Nightmare. Yes, the XP is set up so people can't hit 5th until your third year.

Right now people do Nightmare for the XP (same as hardcore) but for the two completion tokens.

If Hellish:
1) Leave treasure the same as Nightmare
2) XP 2,500 vs 2,000 (Nightmare)

Without some type of benefit people will just keep farming Nightmare for completion tokens with really no chance of death based on current gear creep.

The possibility of extra XP and increased chance of death would give people incentive to run the risk of death.

With no benefit for increased risk of death, just keep farming Nightmare.

My guess is that nightmare will get a ramp up this year.

We've reached a point where the only reason landing a 1 on the slider is a miss is because of the rules saying it's an automatic miss, not the math.

If I'm running a D & D game and the monster can only be hit on a 20, I'm running too hard of a game. Conversely, if everything hits except a 1, the game is too easy. Either by gear or by design. We can't take away gear. Has to be design.

I'd love to see a harder Nightmare. I was nervous about my first Nightmare run. By the third I wasn't nervous at all. I should be anxious for every Nightmare run, by design.

It seems to me like the game mechanics are not being used to their fullest extent. Did anyone have to make a saving throw for poison this year, for example? I didn't. I just had poison damage thrown at me. Made me wonder why I had tokens to "save" vs poison at all. There are other ways to increase the challenge of the game without just upping the AC, the to-hit, and the damage.

I loved the orb room in Zephyr this year, where to even hit the creature we had to break through two shields, or the crypt room in Viper where we had to destroy the upper right corner crypt with monsters stacking up in front of us. Give me more challenge like that, and less "you can only hit this monster on a 19+" or "this monster is immune to your special McGuffin".

Yes, Nightmare can be farmed. But aside from monster bits or the 1% specials, do the Nightmare players really want more tokens? Or do they want a sense of accomplishment? I think it's the latter.

-Joshua

joshua baessler wrote: Yes, Nightmare can be farmed. But aside from monster bits or the 1% specials, do the Nightmare players really want more tokens? Or do they want a sense of accomplishment? I think it's the latter.

-Joshua

It's the previous not the latter. Why else are there huge discussion about treasure pulls in the Charm of Plenty.

I rather do Hellish difficulty with increased risk and better XP/rewards. Right now people farm the two completion tokens for those that can't do Nightmare or need more for their groups.

Kaledor wrote:

joshua baessler wrote: Yes, Nightmare can be farmed. But aside from monster bits or the 1% specials, do the Nightmare players really want more tokens? Or do they want a sense of accomplishment? I think it's the latter.

-Joshua

It's the previous not the latter. Why else are there huge discussion about treasure pulls in the Charm of Plenty.

I rather do Hellish difficulty with increased risk and better XP/rewards. Right now people farm the two completion tokens for those that can't do Nightmare or need more for their groups.

I disagree. It is the latter. You can farm on any difficulty, why do it on Nightmare where the opportunity to miss a stamp rises? Hardcore gives the same rewards (except the Green Completion). Anyone looking to make a buck would be smarter to play that.

Notice how many people have already spoken out about extra rewards on a tougher difficulty.