TOPIC: Best Classes for True Grind?

These are just some ramblings I had and wanted to get out. This is based on my player experience and on my analysis of Grind. These are OPINION only.


[Best Classes for NORMAL]

1. Cleric
2. Paladin
3. Monk
4. Dwarf Fighter
5. Fighter
6. Bard
7. Barbarian
8. Ranger
9. Druid
10. Wizard
11. Elf Wizard
12. Rogue


[Best Classes for HARDCORE]

1. Cleric
2. Paladin
3. Bard
4. Druid
5. Fighter
6. Dwarf Fighter
7. Monk
8. Ranger
9. Barbarian
10. Wizard
11. Elf Wizard
12. Rogue


[Best Classes for NIGHTMARE]

1. Bard
2. Druid
3. Paladin
4. Cleric
5. Monk
6. Ranger
7. Fighter
8. Dwarf Fighter
9. Barbarian
10. Wizard*
11. Elf Wizard*
12. Rogue

* The Wizards can jump up several places if they are willing to burn scrolls and wands or if they have certain builds (Mad Evoker's Charm) with proper support (Cleric/Druid with Lenses of Divine Sight).



Overall:

- Cleric and Paladin are always great

- Bard and Druid become significantly more valuable on higher difficulty levels

- Wizards are tricky because they require different strategies

- Barbarians seem to get outclasses by the Fighters. Their damage output is not significantly better (rage excepted) and the main difference is that they have crappier armor.

- Rogues seem like they should have the hardest time in Grind. No treasure boxes to solve. With multiple monsters, Flank is less helpful. Maybe you might get lucky with some sneak attacks but mostly Rogues seem outclassed by Bards and Rangers.


What are your thoughts?

I'm curious as to why dwarf fighter is better than fighter on normal, but fighter is better on hardcore and nightmare.

Harlax wrote: I'm curious as to why dwarf fighter is better than fighter on normal, but fighter is better on hardcore and nightmare.

My opinion would be:

On lower difficulty levels, the +4 defensive bonus (against large creatures) is more valuable because the +4 AC makes a bigger difference at that stage and especially because the group's healing capabilities will be more limited. Survival is a little more important at that stage, which is also why the Fighters are higher than the Ranger.

On higher levels there will be more healing available and although you certainly don't want to neglect defense entirely, offense does become more valuable. Thus the normal Fighter's higher attack bonuses and offensive capabilities become more useful than the Dwarf Fighter's defense. Similarly, at the upper levels, the double attacks of the Monk and Ranger become much more valuable (due to the stacking of + hit/damage) than they were at lower levels.

At least that is my thinking!

Interesting to see the monk at #3 on Normal (I assume because of damage and not needing gear), drop down to #7 on Hardcore (because mid-level monk gear isn't very good?), then back up to #5 on Nightmare (purple gear like Viper Strike Fangs?).

Jake Fitch wrote: Interesting to see the monk at #3 on Normal (I assume because of damage and not needing gear), drop down to #7 on Hardcore (because mid-level monk gear isn't very good?), then back up to #5 on Nightmare (purple gear like Viper Strike Fangs?).

Yes, that is my reasoning.

Monks rank very highly on normal because they do not require gear and because they have a variety of helpful immunities.

On Hardcore, the lack of necessary gear becomes less helpful when all the Fighter classes start to have good equipment. In this case, the lack of good equippable tokens becomes a disadvantage for the Monk.

On Nightmare, the damage potential of the Monk (and the Ranger) due to two attacks makes them much more valuable.

Think your right on rogues, I played one in grind this year and the group I was with was under the impression that the rogue wasn't even available in grind. Still usually means the class is open and who knows maybe one day flank will come in handy.

As somebody who is planning to play both Bard and Ranger next year, but who hasn't played Bard before, what makes Bard so powerful especially in Nightmare? Is it simply his ability to, using various instruments, both attack or use scrolls and also help everybody else with + hit and + damage?

Kirk Bauer wrote: As somebody who is planning to play both Bard and Ranger next year, but who hasn't played Bard before, what makes Bard so powerful especially in Nightmare? Is it simply his ability to, using various instruments, both attack or use scrolls and also help everybody else with + hit and + damage?

Bardsong. It is all about Bardsong.

I think Raven quoted it best when she mentioned the noticeable change in hits (against Sandy the Troll I believe) between the times when the Bard was singing and when the Bard was not singing.

At upper levels level, you have access to Widseth's Lute and/or Briano's Bodhran, which essentially means you get Bardsong for free. That +2/+4 goes a LONG LONG way. Easily the strongest ability in the game in Grind, and why the clever monsters in Grind commonly attack the Bard if he is vulnerable. So Bards beware!

Incognito wrote:

Kirk Bauer wrote: As somebody who is planning to play both Bard and Ranger next year, but who hasn't played Bard before, what makes Bard so powerful especially in Nightmare? Is it simply his ability to, using various instruments, both attack or use scrolls and also help everybody else with + hit and + damage?

Bardsong. It is all about Bardsong.

I think Raven quoted it best when she mentioned the noticeable change in hits (against Sandy the Troll I believe) between the times when the Bard was singing and when the Bard was not singing.

At upper levels level, you have access to Widseth's Lute and/or Briano's Bodhran, which essentially means you get Bardsong for free. That +2/+4 goes a LONG LONG way. Easily the strongest ability in the game in Grind, and why the clever monsters in Grind commonly attack the Bard if he is vulnerable. So Bards beware!

Translation: it sucks to be the bard in grind.

kurtreznor wrote: Translation: it sucks to be the bard in grind.

Except for the fact that you are the most important member of the party!

I'm curious what the Monk is lacking equipment wise to keep up at the Hardcore level?

MetaphoricDragon wrote: I'm curious what the Monk is lacking equipment wise to keep up at the Hardcore level?

Well there is a big gap between the Uncommon Monk's Green Belt and the UR Monk's Belt.

And there is a big gap between Uncommon/Rare Monk weapons and when you start getting UR stuff.

Meanwhile the Fighter types get lots of good armor options at the Rare level. And the atypical slot placement for the Monk becomes a hindrance at Hardcore level (Bracer weapons mean you can't use Bracers of Fire or Bracers of Defense, Green Belt means you lose out on the Belt of Ogre Power).