TOPIC: Insights on Player Types

During True Realm, I had the opportunity to spend a lot of time talking with fellow TD players (much more than I am normally able to at GenCon). In my discussions, I came upon some interesting insights (with valuable Trading implications) which I thought it might be helpful to share.<br /><br />The first is regarding Individual focused players vs those with a Group mindset. (Those familiar with game theory, sociology, or psychology should enjoy this discussion). Bear in mind that there is no "right" or "wrong" player type (and in fact, most people can be either depending on the situation and I've certainly had my fair share with both). If you somehow end up in a group with 7 strangers, you're much more likely to be Individual-focused - watching your own back and ensuring your own survival is the top priority. On the other extreme we have the cases where people buy an entire slot to adventure with seven family members or friends. In such a situation, the emphasis is on what's best for the group. Some of these Group players are in charge of all their collective tokens and outfit their entire group every year. You can also end up with hybrids (i.e. you have a group of 2, or 4, or 5 that play together every year, in which case you combine the different motivations).<br /><br /><br />#1. In the past on the this forum, we've had discussions of Two-Handed Weapons vs Shields (maximize damage or worry about AC). And we've concluded that your mentality does play a role. In a Group environment, maximizing damage with a two-handed weapon is more important. But it's entirely rational (and logical) for someone on his own to want to go with the shield (and maximize AC instead). Similar issues arise with the head slot (Crown of Might or AC Helm?), hands (Gauntlets of Ogre Power or Gloves of Dexterity?), and belt (Girdle of Giant Strength or Belt of Retrieval in case you need a quick heal?)<br /><br />#2. You also have the avoidance / redirection items (Cloak of Elvenkind, Hat of Escape, and Ring of Sanctuary) which have an interesting game theory dynamic because they may prolong an individual's survival but potentially at the expense of the rest of the group (either other group members get attacked instead or you aren't attacking the monster). These are great when you just have to look out for yourself, but much less useful when concerned about the whole group.<br /><br />#3. The Amulet slot is rather unique though. On the one hand, the HoP and occasionally Amulet of Wonder offer a material temptation (more tokens), though it could reduce the effectiveness of the overall party. Then again, individuals often have a significant challenge acquiring ingredients and dungeon-only tokens. In the old days, you just had three draws - that's it. But some of the Group players may be getting all of the tokens drawn by the entire group (who just play for fun). So in that sense, the Horn of Plenty can be seen as "balancing" in that it gives lone players a better chance at getting elusive dungeon-only tokens. Now we're seeing a slightly opposite effect with the addition of new, stronger Amulets (Medallion of Greyhawk, Torc of Natural Armor). Individual players may be tempted to stick with their Horn. But Group players can actually have the best of both worlds. They can choose to wear the new Amulets, and still enjoy the benefits of the HoP or AoW through proxy (i.e. give the HoP to a family member, significant other, or other patsy who just wants to have fun and will give you all the tokens).<br /><br />#4. There are also many items that have varying degrees of utility depending on what type of player (and party dynamic) you are. SeyLah's Sundering Cestus can be absolutely amazing for a group working together. As an individual, the Cestus isn't as great (in fact, it might make you more of a target for monster attacks). Scroll of Mass Cure Minor Wounds is pretty useless for a lone player concerned with individual survival. But it's absolutely amazing for Group players who need to heal everyone (especially from trap or "push" damage). Same with Wand of Slow and Scroll of Summon Insects. From a group perspective, it's great (it saves everyone). If you're playing on your own, you only have a one in eight chance of being attacked anyway, so it's not as worth it. The same can be said with most consumables. Bringing the concept of "diffusion of responsibility," an Individual player has little incentive to waste Arrows, Sling Bullets, Bless scrolls, or Runestones (such a small edge won't have a noticeable impact on its own). But they can exceedingly more valuable in a Group environment (where eliminating the monster ASAP is the primary goal, rather than survival).<br /><br />#5. This can have important ramifications for Trading. Those that outfit their either Group can quickly run through Bless scrolls (3 or 4 per run) or Runestones (using 8 per run). When I first got my 2009 tokens, I lamented at all the useless Runestones (am I ever going to actually use them?). Then I was amazed to see how many players actually wanted them (which are great if you are outfitting your whole party).<br /><br />#6. Another challenge with Trading are useful items that can be used by most members of the party. Questor's Charm and the Rod of Seven Parts are good examples. Quite helpful and slotless. There also seems to be a serious dearth of Boots of Free Action (useful by all members and probably the best non-Rogue boots, though maybe the new Boots of Warmth will change things?). Some players therefore are trying to collect 8 (for their entire group). From an Individual perspective, you only need 1 (plus maybe another one or two for trade bait). But those with an Individual mindset can be baffled when trying to trade with those Group players - well you already have 6 of them, so why can't you trade just one? Similar things can be said about items like Potion of Death's Door (needing enough to cover 8 players rather than just 1).<br /><br />    A. As a side note, there were some interesting situations in True Grind since there were two mini-treasure pulls where you could draw (mainly from used up consumables already turned in). Oftentimes, when someone used a Potion of Death's Door, someone else would later redraw that same token. From an Individual perspective, using a Death's Door would definitely not be worth it. But when working with 7 other close Group members, you know that someone will redraw it (getting the Death's Door right back). I hear that in some True Grind runs, the same Death's Door was used multiple times!<br /><br />#7. One final insight is regarding a different player type - the Collector (who could be an Individualist or a Group outfitter). At True Realm, I met one Collector (one of the handful of the $8k buyers). One's normal gut reaction is that someone with that many tokens must have TONS of stuff to trade. What I didn't realize is that oftentimes, many of a Collector's tokens are locked up in completed sets. One of the Collectors I met only had two spare Purps to trade (due to completed sets and needing to outfit an entire party of eight). So remember that just because you have lots of tokens doesn't necessarily you have lots of tokens for trade. Unless you're Smakdown.... =D<br /><br /><br /><br />Hopefully some of you may find these insights to be helpful. Feel free to discuss or debate, or add your own!<br />

I would definitely say that is a very concise definition of True Dungeon player types. If you count in your usual Gaming Basic types it would also affect things as well. We used to say that there are three basic Gamers...<br /><br />1. Hack n Slash: The type that only cares about killing the monsters and loot.<br />2. Role Players: The ones that like to stay in character and do things that their character (and not necessarily themselves) would do. For them the "Moments" or Stories are what make the event.<br />3. Quest Solvers: These ones have to figure out what the quest or puzzles are all about! For them it is the knowledge and figuring out the clues that they care about.<br /><br />So what I have found is that most people are a combination of the three but it helps if you have one of each type in your group. I myself would say I am 2,1,3 in that order. I like to get the stories from the runs the most and then the killing. If the quest is solved it is usually inadvertently by another player lol. <br /><br />Lady Myke

<br />This reminds me of the Daedalus Project... http://www.nickyee.com/daedalus/archives/001306.php <br />

Very interesting insights.  And those observances probably roll over into a lot of things the same people do outside of True Dungeon as well.  Some people are more naturally team players and may even bring that to a group of 7 strangers, while others are more introspective and focus on making sure they survive.

Very interesting.  Hmm...

I love the analysis.  Warms me bones to delve deeply into game choices...<br /><br />I'd have to disagree with #2.  Hat of escape is actually the ideal group item for certain classes - Bard, Wiz, Monk, Ranger maybe.  I completely agree if your plate wearers are wearing that(and for SHAME!!!), but if your softies are wearing those items it is best for the entire group if the monster spends more times attacking the guy with AC 24 and 20 HP.  In normal runs, just the monster choosing to attack our fighter meant it was a miss.  <br /><br />I'm also curious how the use of Shielding fits into this analysis.  Actually, I'd also really be curious what the actual rules for shielding are (Sometimes it just means monster attacks A instead of B when trying to attack B.  Other times, DM mentioned that B can't attack - I'm not sure at all what the real rules are other than the -2)

I think it may not be limited to "player types" so much as it is based on the group you're with.<br /><br /> I've been at both ends of the stick.. and at times been very "pro group" and at other times been very "pro Me"  the difference has largely been the group I'm with.  If it's a very challenging run I tend very pro group.. much like I did for the Commando Run.... There were folks who were simply better at being a rouge than I, and we needed all the healing we could get, so I played a druid<br /><br />Other times We'd have a well outfited group, and I'd tend more pro-me.. because there was a larger room for error.  (it is possible to do the rouge's box during a combat)  (it is also possible for a sufficiently smart mouthed character to get killed in the training room)<br /><br /> but it's an interesting view none the less.<br /><br />I'd be very interested to see a " burn the limited use tokens" vs the " save them for collections / really important times" breakdown.... I've seen both as a DM, and it's rather curious.<br /><br />Might have to take some DM notes this year for comparison

Very interesting thoughts - and of course there are hybrids of all of those.<br /><br />I outfit our group, for instance.  <br />*  We use no consumables, except for a "utility belt" sheet of tokens in the binder with stuff like some healing & resurrection, stone to flesh, anti-toxin, knock, etc.  I'm already carrying a binder that's too heavy as is - adding consumables for every run would be TOO much!  Plus, I like the fact that we do well without needing consumables.  <br />*  We are Damage oriented, in that everyone other than the Rogue has a Gauntlet of Ogre Might and Girdle of Hill Giant Strength, with many +2 Weapons (the Rogue has a +2 Flaming Shortbow with Gloves of Dexterity and Bracers of Archery).<br />*  We are defense oriented, in that everyone has the maximum armor I could manage (mostly PURP with some Red), everyone has a shield (mostly PURP) that can use one, everyone has +2 Cloaks of Resistance, everyone has Boots of Free Action, everyone has a +1 Ring of Protection, nearly everyone has an additional Savings Throw Ring, everyone has Bracers of Defense (except for the Rogue's Bracers of Archery and the Wizard's Bracelets of the Zephyr), four party members have the Rod of 7 Parts.<br />*  The rationalle for using 1-handed weapons & shields is that even without 2 handed weapons we can kill most monsters in 1-3 turns (we did the Beholder 103 points of damage in round 1), so we're maximizing AC so that we have a better chance of not being hit for those few turns the monster is alive. 

Of course the wizard has no shield.<br />

<br />Of course the wizard has no shield.<br /><br />

<br /><br />Yep, no shield for the Wizard, Ranger, Rogue, or Bard.  (or Monk I suppose, we never play Monk and I don't have a sheet for him in the Binder). 

We Monks don't need shields!  We're lightning fast, no one can touch us!... Except for that time when I double-hit Iuz's snake form, and really pissed him off, and that just didn't go well for the Monk.  :|