TOPIC: Radical change to Common Tokens (discussion)

One of the basic problems with tokens at the moment is that common tokens (with very few exceptions) are worthless.  I believe that this is one of the reasons that there were less people buying small amounts of tokens this year.  People who are not hardcore TD players are not willing to spend $10 for a bag of tokens that they know are 70% useless.<br /><br />I think items like common weapon and armor should be issued to the party if they need it (like the coaches do now) so there is no reason to have these tokens in the purchased token bags.  Likewise if a party was issued a pack of gear, (50' rope, grappling hook, etc) we would not need these tokens in purchased bags either. <br /><br />What we really need to add is some sort of consumeable item.  But in order to keep from being a huge advantage to people with many tokens, these consumables should only be used once per room.  So something like "orcish bloodbrew, heals 1 point damage, (2nd bloodbrew in the same room causes 5 point of vomiting damage)."    <br /><br />(I am sorry this is not full proposal, it is just an idea identifying a problem, which I hope with much discussion we can come to a good solution.) 

I think it's possible that one of the reasons that people weren't buying as many tokens had to do with people feeling that they didn't have as much money to spend this year.  Also, I don't think commons are completely worthless.  Are they in great abundance?  Yes, they are.  That's why the trade items are such a good idea.  You couldn't solve the key room this year without commons.  There always seems to be a room in the dungeon that requires their use.<br /><br />Kim

<br />I think it's possible that one of the reasons that people weren't buying as many tokens had to do with people feeling that they didn't have as much money to spend this year.  Also, I don't think commons are completely worthless.  Are they in great abundance?  Yes, they are.  That's why the trade items are such a good idea.  You couldn't solve the key room this year without commons.  There always seems to be a room in the dungeon that requires their use.<br /><br />Kim<br />

<br /><br />Trade items don't make common tokens any more attractive to small token buyers. <br /><br />And even for large token buyers, Trade items dont solve the basic problem, common tokens (after the first one or two of each type in a party) have no use.  The Trade item allow the common token to be traded for something that might be useful someday.  But the common token itself is worthless.   

I'm not sure this is even a problem, I think Jeff was indicating this was a banner year for Token sales.  Like all collectible items that are sold random in packs (like collectible card games, miniature games, etc), I think people recognize the commons will have minimal value - and there are some nice consumables and gear already in the common slots that new players can use.

If you can trade a common token for something it is not worthless.  It has value.<br /><br />Kim

<br />I'm not sure this is even a problem, I think Jeff was indicating this was a banner year for Token sales.  <br />

<br /><br />The concern (and no I don't have any official numbers to back this concern up) is that while total token sale may have gone up this year, the growth was among those folks buying $250 or more (the PYOP folks).  And that sales among folks just buying a bag or two was down.   <br /><br />Normally at GenCon there are a lot of folks who just have a couple of bags of tokens trading these folks were not there as much this year.  Last year, I had a spot in the tavern where I was really busy trading and there were often a couple of other folks trading nearby.  This year I was often the only trader I saw and I wasn't nearly as busy as in the past.   <br /><br />

<br />Like all collectible items that are sold random in packs (like collectible card games, miniature games, etc), I think people recognize the commons will have minimal value - and there are some nice consumables and gear already in the common slots that new players can use. <br />

<br /><br />People may be willing to spend $60-$100 for a box of Magic cards to find the rares they want because they know they can play Magic many times is a year.  Most people get one (or two) runs through TD a year.<br /><br />If a player in TD opens his free pack of tokens and finds not a single token he can use, is not going to be interested in buying more packs.  Common tokens should useful to new players.   If a new player opens a pack and can't find a use for 3 or 4 of his tokens, then to him the tokens were a waste of time and money.   <br />

<br />If you can trade a common token for something it is not worthless.  It has value.<br /><br />Kim<br />

<br /><br />Kim,<br />    A thing is worth what someone will pay for it.  I am not aware of anyone who was trading for single common armor or weapons.  So while 25 common armor or weapons might have a value, a single armor or weapon had none.<br /><br />

The common tokens allow for people to be creative.  Even though it wasn't officially sanctioned, back in the day I remember people taking a quarterstaff and rope and making an extra torch so the group could get an extra light source.  Just because people are not using common tokens or are not using them in a creative manner does not mean that the common tokens are useless.  Just because some people can't trade, trade in, or sell common tokens does not mean that they are useless.

<br />     A thing is worth what someone will pay for it.  I am not aware of anyone who was trading for single common armor or weapons.  So while 25 common armor or weapons might have a value, a single armor or weapon had none.<br />

  Are you really concerned that the tokens can't be used in the Dungeon or are you more concerned that you feel you're wasting 30-40% of the money that you spend on tokens each year, tokens that people won't trade or buy off of you?

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<br />     A thing is worth what someone will pay for it.  I am not aware of anyone who was trading for single common armor or weapons.  So while 25 common armor or weapons might have a value, a single armor or weapon had none.<br />

  Are you really concerned that the tokens can't be used in the Dungeon or are you more concerned that you feel you're wasting 30-40% of the money that you spend on tokens each year, tokens that people won't trade or buy off of you?<br />

<br /><br />Mock26,<br />      Depending on how you look at it, I am either wasting 100% of the money I am spending on tokens (figuring on how many dollars I get back), or wasting 0% of it (if you consider every token purchase a donation to keep TD healthy, which is how I feel).  Trading is something I do to entertain myself when I am not volunteering.  As to percent of token I trade, 95+% of the token I buy don't get traded for anything (I doubt I traded away half of my rares this year).  I am not sure if more useful commons would help or hurt my trading my trading but I think it would help people be more interested in buying tokens (which I think would be good for TD). 

Remember the scarcity of mirrors last year?  Remember the importance of rope and twine this year?  Common tokens are far from useless.  And if they are useless, then from what perspective?  From someone who spends several hundred to several thousand dollars on tokens?  Or from someone who spends $10-20 on tokens?  I suspect that most of the people who play True Dungeon only buy a pouch or two of tokens and that's it, and I'm willing to bet money that they don't get upset when they get a coil of rope and a scroll tube.  At most they might get a couple duplicates over the course of a couple of years.  I also think that those are the people who Jeff is catering True Dungeon towards, the average person who does one or two runs a year and who might spend a few bucks on tokens.  I suspect that when it comes to True Dungeon tickets that they are the bread and butter of the event.  For the serious token buyers who already spend big bucks on tokens there is no need to make common tokens "more useful."  Those people primarily care about the purples and reds and about completely their collection.

I agree that the new players don't find the common tokens useless, they probably find a bunch of useful tokens in there, especially if they pool tokens as a party.  Common weapons, common armor, common gear, common potions and scrolls - all great for the new player to get.  I think the common tokens only get useless when someone buys so many tokens they've got stacks of all of them all over the place - and for those people they now have trade tokens.  Which is very nice of TD - I wish I could get trade cards for all my common magic cards!