TOPIC: Nightshade’s Grim Gloves crit modifier clarification

Can anyone clarify for me, when using the grim gloves and wielding a nightshade’s throwing dagger in melee would the full damage of a crit sneak attack be tripled?

My understanding would be yes as it indicates the 2x becomes 3x as opposed to some different additional modified being added on top. So since the 2x crit of the dagger applies to the 20 sneak dmg bonus it should upgrade to 3x. But nothing on tokendb makes this fully black and white.

Example:
Rogue equips Grim Gloves and Nightshade’s Throwing Dagger in mainhand

Sneak attack with “20” slide
10 weapon damage
+25 party card melee dmg modifier
20 sneak bonus damage for 5th lvl
= 55 damage base
Crit multiplier x3 = 165 total damage dealt

Thanks

Mitch wrote: Can anyone clarify for me, when using the grim gloves and wielding a nightshade’s throwing dagger in melee would the full damage of a crit sneak attack be tripled?

My understanding would be yes as it indicates the 2x becomes 3x as opposed to some different additional modified being added on top. So since the 2x crit of the dagger applies to the 20 sneak dmg bonus it should upgrade to 3x. But nothing on tokendb makes this fully black and white.

Example:
Rogue equips Grim Gloves and Nightshade’s Throwing Dagger in mainhand

Sneak attack with “20” slide
10 weapon damage
+25 party card melee dmg modifier
20 sneak bonus damage for 5th lvl
= 55 damage base
Crit multiplier x3 = 165 total damage dealt

Thanks

I believe your example is the correct interpretation. That said I could see a DM getting this wrong since a lot of the text for the dagger is on the database rather than the token.

Thanks, yea I agree. On the fly, if you don’t play rogue there is a good chance you would miss these interactions. I suppose if you could convince coaching it could maybe be in the notes section on the card - or I guess if the sneak dmg was filled out and card indicated 3x crit on melee sneak that could clue them in. That said too, not like I am critting 20 times a run, so I guess I could also just let the DM know, hey that is a 3x crit on the full damage

Hi Mitch,

Yes, that was the intent with this token. The Crit multiplier becomes x3 when a Rogue is wearing Nightshade's Grim Gloves, while making a melee Sneak Attack. Since Nightshade's Short Sword and Nightshade's Throwing Dagger both allow the Sneak Attack damage (+15 at 4th level, or +20 at 5th) to be included in the Crit, it would allow this number to be tripled instead of merely doubled on a Critical hit, once per combat.

It was discussed during Token Development that year, and I was paying a *lot* of attention to that discussion.

Some quick notes (which you seem to have caught correctly) that I've noticed some players - and occasionally DMs - are confused about:

* The x3 multiplier only works in Melee, not in Ranged... even if you're using the Throwing dagger which allows a Ranged Sneak Attack.

* The x3 is only for Sneak Attacks - not just any Melee Critical made by a Rogue.

* It only works once/combat, even if you have something (like the Necklace of the Sneak) which allows you to make multiple Sneak Attacks per combat.

* If you have an item which expands the Critical range (Necklace of the Sneak, Raphiel's Necklace, Amulet of Aiming, etc) then this effect DOES work on the expanded critical range, not just on a natural 20!

* You have to be able to actually Crit the monster - if it is immune to crits, or to Sneak Attacks, then this effect does nothing other than make you look cool. (So equip Bracers of Guided Strike or a Bead of Guided Strike, if possible!)

* Since the Viper Strike *set* bonus also allows Sneak Attack damage to be included in the Critical Multiplier, if a Rogue had at least 3 elements of: Viper Strike Pants, VS Shirt, VS Belt, or any Viper Strike Dagger in +2, +3 or +5 flavour... and was also wearing the Nightshade's Grim Gloves, the Sneak attack would also be x3 on a crit.

I highly encourage Rogues using the Grim Gloves to point out to their DM's that they qualify for triple damage, when their puck is in a Critical spot, because - and I say this as a DM - sometimes it's hard to track everything going on. Just be polite about it : )

- Raven (aka Nightshade)

Thanks Raven, this all makes sense. and as a fledgling DM, completely agree with there being so much going on I can easily see something like that being missed.