TOPIC: Signet of the Ten Saints Power Level Discussion

In Tokendb it says this:

"The user gains the Saintly sub-type, granting specialization in the use of prayer beads. This allows the wearer to equip two additional beads, subject to the Slot Expanders Cap of eight beads.

* we reserve the right to tweak the exact power of this token once we get community feedback."

Along those lines, I thought I'd initiate a discussion on whether the power level should be tweaked.

For reference on a couple of recent tokens:

1) The 2026 Earcuff of Greater Glory uses an earcuff slot and gives up to four Ring Slots (+2 Ring slots).

2) The 2026 Greater Bead Bracelets uses one Wrist Slot and provides 3 extra bead slots

3) The 2022 Greater Charm Bracelets uses one Wrist Slot and provides 3 extra Charm Slots.

Based on these examples, it seems to me like it might be a bit underpowered as is and the appropriate power level might be three additional beads instead of two additional beads.

What does everyone think?

How do the resources required to build the various tokens listed compare?

I feel like there is two ways to look at this ring:

1: it is just a slot expander
2: it is a slot expander and gives you a subtype (this only really matters if having specific subtypes become game play relevant)

To expand on 2, if being saintly protected you from demonic effects or did something else; then I think the token is above rate in comparison to the 3 tokens you have listed.

As an additional note we still don't fully know how the ring of ioun comes into play either. It looks like there might be a legendary transmute for the signet; therefore, I think it is way to soon to make a fair evaluation of the token.

Incoming ramblings:

I think the benefit of there being a only subtype given on the token gives TPTB flexibility to even change the power yearly to adjust for theme/feedback (maybe another year it could be a different thing like charms, iouns, or a leg expander...or maybe +saves, +DR, etc)

If we are looking at just bead counts, I feel like it really just gives flexibility to swap things out if you want. I could swap my bead bracelets to charm or something else even and still not lose more than 1 bead (assuming people are running relic bead wrists). Its really just how you want to spend the slot (and weighing pros and cons of your own approach). I'd probably look to endgame for an analysis of the role the ring plays in build efficiency for maximizing, but I don't think people are having trouble getting towards the max number of beads. Just gives them the flexibility to swap for charm or some other wrists and still stay close to the max number of beads.

As an aside, I wasn't expecting a ring at all and found the "get 10 of these as a group" to be a fun exercise forcing me to meet other players (I was originally focusing on just our Sacred Circle group but when I found out it could be anyone, that made it more "social"). We could have gotten a pointless little trinket and I still would have felt an accomplishment for getting people organized and going outside my typical "only talk to people I know" in social situations.

I think it being 3 beads would be too much honestly. You only get 1 wrist slot to get 3 beads and doing the same with 1 of your 2(or 4 with egg) ring slots would feel like a much better rate. Egg gives up 1 of 2 ear slots to give 2 more slots to an already multi slotted item so that seems similar.

Regarding the transmute path to legendary wouldn’t a Omni cube be substitutable? That seems like a fair trade off for people to use vs going to ring con.

I think 2 is a great number given the low effort level to get it. 2 is enough I will use it, but not so much it’s locked best in slot, 3 would put it at legendary level in my opinion.
That said the Ring of the Ten Saints only gives 1 extra bead slot, and I would never use it.

As for the subtype, there can be some fun stuff done behind the scenes on VTD.

It could give you extra lore, or there could be monsters that will always attack Saintly sub-type over players without that subtype. Maybe give you a religion check to know how monsters work differently in this universe that classic film.

Im fine with the power level, given it was functional a supprise gift for attending we should probably accept it in the spirit it was given.

We "all" also recently got 2 ring slots from the egg so trading one for two beads seems like a slam dunk.

The only thing I would like to suggest is some kind of short trailing transmute grace period to allow people who could not find a ceremony group in time (vols, those who had to leave early, etc) a chance to trade their single saint signet in without ceremony, maybe at an additional cost like a random left over silver ship trade good, a fleece, or some gold since it is true they were not able to complete the challange propper in th allotted time.

Personally I'm just happy we had a chance at a fun game though.

I think the ring is perfectly fine as is. Two beads seems like an appropriate power level for a relic, as we have a lot of really good beads to choose from.

The only downside is for those who run at higher levels using Bibwick's. With Bibwick's equipped, you only have one open bead slot. That means the ring only gives you one additional bead. It's not the ring's fault, it's just that the math doesn't work out well. Sure, you could drop Bibwick's for another wrist item and then equip the ring to get two beads back. But like I said, there are a lot of good beads, so dropping two doesn't feel like a good tradeoff for any other wrist item.

Picc wrote: The only thing I would like to suggest is some kind of short trailing transmute grace period to allow people who could not find a ceremony group in time (vols, those who had to leave early, etc) a chance to trade their single saint signet in without ceremony, maybe at an additional cost like a random left over silver ship trade good, a fleece, or some gold since it is true they were not able to complete the challange propper in th allotted time.

Ordinarily I would agree with this, but we have already had trading/selling start with the idea that the window was closed, so I feel it’s too late to change it now.

(Not replying to Picc after this)

The effort to make the Signet was pretty simple, provided one has the time to coordinate and desire to socialize. Many of the items referenced as comparisons take lots of trade goods, monster bits, etc. They should not be equally as powerful.

I'll be totally happy if it stays at two, or if it bumped to three. Either way it's a great keepsake from the weekend and a very usable token. My group doesn't use any slot extender tokens so far, but I can see us using some of these next year when all three of the three current slots are filled with TE beads.

TD was very generous in giving us these and very imaginative in making it an interactive activity.

It isn't necessary at all but it would be fun if there were some sort of saintly add on. Maybe even a different thing each year to reflect one of the ten Saints. Maybe each year a different Saint of the ten Saints gives a little bonus. One thought is each year it could incorporate one of the ten rare ring effects, but maybe that's too powerful and\or too hard to track. Totally fine if it doesn't do anything additional, I'm just brainstorming a bit.

Saintly Half Dragon Vampire Spawn

I'll add to the voices saying I am happy with the token as is and thankful for the opportunity to have an unexpected additional fun activity at the con.