TOPIC: Mystic Staves are now magical

The definition of what makes a weapon magical has been updated to include all mystic staves. It now reads:
Other than Masterwork, all mystic staves, or "plain" Silver weapons/ammunition (which are the only exceptions), if a weapon has any kind of + To Hit, + Damage, or × Damage printed on the token, it counts as "magical".

All (🤞) mystic staff entries in the TDb have been updated to reflect this change and include this paragraph:
All mystic staves are magical Ranged weapons, but they do not shoot physical projectiles. Mystic staves cannot be used to make a melee attack--they are too fragile. Mystic staves do not require a command word to function and may be used in areas of magical silence, but cannot be used in an anti-magic field.

The next published version of the Player's Handbook will also include this change.

Druegar wrote: The definition of what makes a weapon magical has been updated to include all mystic staves. It now reads:
Other than Masterwork, all mystic staves, or "plain" Silver weapons/ammunition (which are the only exceptions), if a weapon has any kind of + To Hit, + Damage, or × Damage printed on the token, it counts as "magical".

All (🤞) mystic staff entries in the TDb have been updated to reflect this change and include this paragraph:
All mystic staves are magical Ranged weapons, but they do not shoot physical projectiles. Mystic staves cannot be used to make a melee attack--they are too fragile. Mystic staves do not require a command word to function and may be used in areas of magical silence, but cannot be used in an anti-magic field.

The next published version of the Player's Handbook will also include this change.

I'm probably reading it incorrectly, but to me the first paragraph is saying that Masterwork, Mystic Staves, and plain silver weapons/ammunition are not magical.

I agree that that wording is really hard to parse and sounds like it's saying something else.

Yeah their tokendb entries indicate that masterwork & silver weapons are non-magical, but now mystic staves are all magical, so why are they grouped together as exceptions?

Say "weapons are magical if they provide to hit or damage bonuses printed on the token, or if they are mystic staves" and if it's necessary (though why would it be?), say "Masterwork and silver weapons are not magical."

Though the phrasing of +damage bonuses printed on the token opens up the door of saying Bliss, Dwarven, Elven etc are magic for their +3 specific bonuses. Not that I think anyone would argue that.

"Other than Masterwork, all mystic staves, or "plain" Silver weapons/ammunition (which are the only exceptions), if a weapon has any kind of + To Hit, + Damage, or × Damage printed on the token, it counts as "magical"."

This has me confused...??

Good catch!
This better?
Other than Masterwork or "plain" Silver weapons/ammunition (which are the only exceptions), if a weapon has any kind of + To Hit, + Damage, or × Damage printed on the token or is a Mystic Staff, it counts as "magical".

What about this:

A weapon is NOT magical if it is:
-Mundane (no +hit AND no + damage)
-masterwork
-perfectwork
-Silver

A weapon IS magical if it:
-is a Mystic Staff
-has a +hit value
-has a + damage value
-has X damage printed on it. (though I'm struggling to think of a token that matches this)

I think part of the confusion comes from front-loading the sentence with a prepositional phrase and a conditional.

How about:
A weapon counts as "magical" if it is a Mystic Staff or has any kind of + To Hit, + Damage, or x Damage printed on the token (and the weapon is not a Masterwork or "plain" Silver weapon, which are the only exceptions).

Endgame wrote: What about this:

A weapon is NOT magical if it is:
-Mundane (no +hit AND no + damage)
-masterwork
-perfectwork
-Silver

A weapon IS magical if it:
-is a Mystic Staff
-has a +hit value
-has a + damage value
-has X damage printed on it. (though I'm struggling to think of a token that matches this)

I like this the most

Druegar wrote: Good catch!
This better?
Other than Masterwork or "plain" Silver weapons/ammunition (which are the only exceptions), if a weapon has any kind of + To Hit, + Damage, or × Damage printed on the token or is a Mystic Staff, it counts as "magical".

Consider these magical (I presume) tokens:
Theoretical token: Masterwork +1 Club
Actual token: +1 Silver Bastard Sword

And this nonmagical (I presume) token: Masterwork Silver Dagger


So "Masterwork" or "Silver" attributes do not determine whether or not a token is magical. Masterwork tokens can be magical or not. Silver tokens can be magical or not. Whether or not they are magical is determined by the same reasons as any other weapon token.

I don't see why they have to be mentioned at all in the description if this is true.

How about:

"Only weapons and ammunition that: Have a + To Hit; + Damage; x Damage printed on the token; or are a Mystic Staff; are magical. All other weapons and ammunition are nonmagical."

Druegar wrote: Good catch!
This better?
Other than Masterwork or "plain" Silver weapons/ammunition (which are the only exceptions), if a weapon has any kind of + To Hit, + Damage, or × Damage printed on the token or is a Mystic Staff, it counts as "magical".

That sounds pretty good, but I'm still not completely sure what "plain" silver weapon/ammunition are and how that is different from "non-plain silver weapon/ammunition".

Matthew Hayward wrote: "Masterwork" or "Silver" attributes do not determine whether or not a token is magical.

Correct

Matthew Hayward wrote: Silver tokens can be magical or not.

Correct.

Matthew Hayward wrote: Masterwork tokens can be magical or not.

Incorrect. Within the context of the game world, even though most magical weapons are constructed using a masterwork weapon as the base, a masterwork item in and of itself is non-magical. Once a weapon gets a +X in its name, its masterworkness is moot because it's now always a magical weapon.

Matthew Hayward wrote: Whether or not they are magical is determined by the same reasons as any other weapon token. I don't see why they have to be mentioned at all in the description if this is true.

Two reasons:

1. Silver Sickle has "+3 damage to lycanthropes" printed on the token itself. Without the "mundane silver" disqualifier, this weapon would be counted as magical.
2. Masterwork Ammunition have "+1 damage" or words to that effect printed on the token.

Here's what the current (though not yet published) PHB shows: