TOPIC: Increasing number of low value URs

Has anyone else noticed that more and more URs are worth not only less than a PYP, but way less - often in the $30-$50 range? I've been wondering why that is. Perhaps there are just so many more token purchases and URs from token loot than before that the supply greatly outweighs the demand? Or maybe it is because more and more players are focusing their builds on Relic and above and URs no longer make the cut? I saw a similar pattern in earlier years with Uncommons and then Rares. Thoughts?

I also wonder if that might eventually impact token sales. If URs are frequently worth a lot less than people are paying for them, perhaps that will be a buying disincentive? I know I'm going to be a lot more selective on what URs I buy going forward.

Mike -- I think both the points you make are likely causes, There may be more. But in my mind you nailed it. I know I'm sitting on a large amount of UR that don't fit in my builds. I have so many due to buying more tokens and to a lesser extent playing more. Also, now the builds I have are much better so it's harder for the URs to make the cut.

I've noticed the same thing. I think there are a number of reasons, but obviously it all comes down to supply is greater than demand.

And yeah, there are many net impacts. Pulling an UR in treasure or in a starter pack isn't quite as exciting as it used to be. Don't get me wrong, it's still very nice, just not quite the same "wow" factor.

Personally, I'd like to see 'any' UR included as part of one of the Omni recipes.

Dave wrote: I've noticed the same thing. I think there are a number of reasons, but obviously it all comes down to supply is greater than demand.

And yeah, there are many net impacts. Pulling an UR in treasure or in a starter pack isn't quite as exciting as it used to be. Don't get me wrong, it's still very nice, just not quite the same "wow" factor.

Personally, I'd like to see 'any' UR included as part of one of the Omni recipes.

It would be nice to have an outlet for excess undervalued URs, I agree that "any" UR's would be nice in some recipes. It would have to specify URs from the regular token set though, to exclude stuff like the UR Turkey Leg.

Mike Steele wrote:

Dave wrote: I've noticed the same thing. I think there are a number of reasons, but obviously it all comes down to supply is greater than demand.

And yeah, there are many net impacts. Pulling an UR in treasure or in a starter pack isn't quite as exciting as it used to be. Don't get me wrong, it's still very nice, just not quite the same "wow" factor.

Personally, I'd like to see 'any' UR included as part of one of the Omni recipes.

It would be nice to have an outlet for excess undervalued URs, I agree that "any" UR's would be nice in some recipes. It would have to specify URs from the regular token set though, to exclude stuff like the UR Turkey Leg.

Agree. UR Turkey Leg and Grunnel's Pointy Stick should not count.

I also think the increased demand for 8ks lately has something to do with it. There has been a lot of reason to buy 8ks in the past few years, from the increased demand for patron for Skullcon, the new CoA recipe leading to mass bead of bounty buying, and all of the multi-year transmutes being basically "mandatory" to keep up with the joneses so to speak. That leads to more 8k orders and random URs that people don't really need making it on to the market.

To expand on that a little, PYP price is reflective of the most in demand PYPs that year. So, this year, probably Greaves of Absorbtion, Shirt of the Imbiber, Bead of Bounty. IMHO, what the market is reflecting is that demand for these particular PYPs was much, much greater than demand for any other PYPs.

The way the token system is monetized is unsustainable in its current form, and the cracks are starting to show.

I honestly think URs need a bit of a bump in power level.

One idea would be to have a yearly set bonus or similar mechanic to encourage folks to find more room in their builds for current year tokens.

Dave wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

Dave wrote: I've noticed the same thing. I think there are a number of reasons, but obviously it all comes down to supply is greater than demand.

And yeah, there are many net impacts. Pulling an UR in treasure or in a starter pack isn't quite as exciting as it used to be. Don't get me wrong, it's still very nice, just not quite the same "wow" factor.

Personally, I'd like to see 'any' UR included as part of one of the Omni recipes.

It would be nice to have an outlet for excess undervalued URs, I agree that "any" UR's would be nice in some recipes. It would have to specify URs from the regular token set though, to exclude stuff like the UR Turkey Leg.

Agree. UR Turkey Leg and Grunnel's Pointy Stick should not count.

I would prefer that any change keeps things as simple as possible. If it is a UR it should count as a UR. I would also prefer that URs be convertible to TGs if we are going to have an opportunity to exchange them. Omni cubes are kind of niche… TGs are a base part of the system.

OrionW wrote:

Dave wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

Dave wrote: I've noticed the same thing. I think there are a number of reasons, but obviously it all comes down to supply is greater than demand.

And yeah, there are many net impacts. Pulling an UR in treasure or in a starter pack isn't quite as exciting as it used to be. Don't get me wrong, it's still very nice, just not quite the same "wow" factor.

Personally, I'd like to see 'any' UR included as part of one of the Omni recipes.

It would be nice to have an outlet for excess undervalued URs, I agree that "any" UR's would be nice in some recipes. It would have to specify URs from the regular token set though, to exclude stuff like the UR Turkey Leg.

Agree. UR Turkey Leg and Grunnel's Pointy Stick should not count.

I would prefer that any change keeps things as simple as possible. If it is a UR it should count as a UR. I would also prefer that URs be convertible to TGs if we are going to have an opportunity to exchange them. Omni cubes are kind of niche… TGs are a base part of the system.

I would personally would love if it we had an option for trade goods. Doesnt even have to be what the actual value of the token is, just a little something so that they could have some value or worth to these tokens that sit and collect over time and become useless and then just can never be used.

Making URs better solves nothing. Power inflation in URs has already occurred and yet here we are.

There are way too many URs not just copies of specific ones but different ones in circulation. Relics, legendaries, Eldritch, Arcanum - just too prevalent as well. Sure, if you could double the number of players chasing URs, that would matter, but that seems improbable.

Every token competes with every other token, not just in same slot but across slots because people have limited budgets. Essentially, new tokens are cannibalizing token sales.

Collectible games hit component bloat eventually, if at different times. Many collectible games don't know how to deal with that well.

Here are my guesses as to what is contributing:

1. Increased supply: Huge numbers of full treasure runs taking place since the advent of VTD compared to normal.

2. Massive power creep at Legendary, and to a lesser extent relic, I think pushes things to where the best optimization points are rare level builds and legendary level builds. In ye-olden-days a legendary token got you +4 to STR over a UR, for example (Surtr's Girdle of Fire Giant Strength vs Girdle of Hill Giant Strength)

Now Viv's Amulet of Noble Might, for example, gives you:
+8 to STR
Add shield AC to reflex saves
Melee weapons crit on 19-20
Double strike (deal damage to a 2nd creature in melee if it's close enough)
Power Attack (select a number from 0-10, and then deduct that number from your melee to-hit bonus and add it to your melee damage bonus)
When compared with UR Medallion of the Sweeetwoods

The distance between UR and legendary is much, much more than the distance between common and UR for a lot of tokens nowadays.

3. General availability of Relic/Legendaries in numerous slots. Let's consider how things were back in 2018, the year before we started in on class legendries.

In the 7 years between 2012-2018 there were:
* 19 legendaries
* 1 Grand Eldrtich
* 2 Eldritch Relics
* 21 Relics

In the 5 years since we've added:
* 20 legendaries
* 1 Grand Eldrtich
* 2 Eldritch Relic
* 24 Relics

4. UR level tokens printed as completion, and now Stalker level tokens. Belt of the Brave is the most obvious example, but there are plenty more. By my estimation, any of these could have been URs: Belt of the Leopard, Goggles of Anticipation, Ioun Stone Ruby Orb, Ioun Stone Ruby Pyramid, Ioun Stone Ruby Spindle, Bead of the Deeper Ones, Charm of the Kraken, Figurine of Power: Parrot, Ioun Stone Kraken Coral Orb, Bead of the Dire Bear, Charm of Targeting, Charm of the Wind, Earcuff of Enlightenment, Ioun Stone Jasper Ellipsoid, Bead Cleric's Piety, Boots of Inferno Step, Horn of Rally, Ring of Pandemonium, Soul Coffer, Brawler's Horn, and about 6 of the Stalker items.

I think all the contributing factors suggested are part of it. Regardless, here we are. The market is flooded with URs that basically, very few want.

I do like the idea of creating a new trade good that soaks up the excess URs. 10 might be too much, but maybe turn in any 5 URs for a unique trade good that could be used in high end recipes. Again, this would have to exclude the unique URs like the Turkey Leg and Pointy Stick. I think the easiest thing is just to say that it only included URs that are part of the core 20 from any year's set. That would also exclude patron and volunteer URs.

If something isn't done, this could end up impacting auctions down the road. People doing auctions assume they can fund them for an amount less than 8K with the assumption they will get useful random URs or be able to sell/trade them to recover their costs for doing the auction. If that is no longer true, then the motivation for 8K auctions starts to decline. We may already be seeing some of that to a small degree.