TOPIC: Thoughts on Eldest Dragon Orb

Please see this post made nearly 7 years ago.

truedungeon.com/forum?view=topic&catid=5&id=242386#242480

I am sorry that I did not manage expectations better -- as some folks are disappointed in the Rare token they received with their Eldest token. It all was handled very poorly by me.

This whole thing started as a surprise "thank you" nearly seven years ago -- and at that time I got a some of angry emails after these appeared. Folks communicated the sentiment that "had I known this was happening, I would have gotten an $8K order" -- and they were mad that they missed out on something really cool that was coming after the eight Orbs were collected.

Therefore, I made it clear in the post above that the Eldest power would be "geeky fun" -- and nothing powerful that folks would feel bad about missing. Therefore, we decided to go with the fun "summon a spirit 1/game" concept to meet that stated goal. Believe me...it was tempting to make something UR powerful that would probably help out future token sales. However, I felt it was best to stick to our nearly 7 year old plan.

Yes...it would have been much better financially for TD to promise some UR level powerful token/power in advance (or after the surprise) but that has not been our style. We did the same "surprise revel" with the Rod of Seven Parts in 2008 -- which just showed up un-announced after the token year was over. I thought I was being "cool" with these un-announced thank you tokens, but unfortunately they have caused more woe and weal. I guess my brain just works differently than some.

I have learned my lesson...finally. I won't do these "surprise" thank you tokens any more. The $8K thank you token for 2023 will be announced soon -- as well as the exact power of the of their multi-year Uber-transmute.

Thank you for your understanding, support and willingness to put up with me screwing stuff up on occasion.

I dont think it was a screw up at all. Thanks for the cool thing.

Just don't print a pet more powerful than the red dragon for awhile.

Let me preface this, I will never own this orb, nor anything to do with it. Not because it isn't cool, but I don't think I'll ever have the money for my own 8k order.

I think it would have been better set as a familiar (figurine slot) , with the same damage, usable 1/per room. Very simple tweak, and maybe give it purple text.

It would be the only familiar able to attack on its own with it's own wheel, and while some might never use it, I think it would be fun

I don’t have a dog in this fight, as I own no orbs, and won’t be transmuting any either.

Jeff, you were clear on this topic, and since you were clear about it, over the last few years when my token buying increased, I stayed away from the orbs. If people bid orbs high in auctions, or paid the very high secondary market prices for them, I can’t help but feeling that’s on the buyer, and Jeff shouldn’t have to apologize to anyone about that. *shrug*

Mine may not be a popular opinion about this matter, and I’m not looking for an argument about this, but TD / Jeff shouldn’t be held to expectations because of the secondary market does with tokens.

I am disappointed in hearing this. "This" meaning that you won't do surprise thank you Tokens anymore because some folks are upset about something that they shouldn't be. I'd much rather see surprise Tokens pop up from time to time then have everything laid out in a straight line. There's no fun in that. If this was a legal contract then fine, dot your "i's" and cross those "t's" but it's not. If I told my wife I wouldn't be surprising her anymore and that I'd lay all plans out meticulously years in advance and not deviate from them I'd get the boot in a second for being one boring ass SOB. Please don't stop doing fun stuff because some folks need their lives planned out for them.

Another vote for keeping the game surprising and fun. I only transmuted the 5 orb option so maybe I would feel differently if I had the 7 orb pet, but I don’t think so - It is still a very cool and unique token.

Jeff, you were clear on this years ahead of time. You dont need to apologize for anything. If you want to make/distribute surprise tokens, you absolutely should do that. It's your game and the people who get them will be happy to receive them. I didn't collect any orbs, because I started playing 4 years after the orbs started being distributed and I don't feel left out. It's a fun thing you did that also introduced a new slot for the rest of us.

Can we, as a community, maybe chill out a bit?

Having given this quite a bit of thought over the last day, I think part of it is simply how the token (the dragon pet) is presented, and as a result how it is perceived. It looks like just another Rare token you'd get out of the treasure box. And one that I might easily just chuck into a transmute bag by mistake.

I think if it was simply printed as a special Rarity on say the same color token backing as the Dragon Orbs, it'd feel a lot more special to me. With the way it is currently presented though, it feels like 1/25th an Aragonite instead of something special.

Jeff Martin wrote: Please see this post made nearly 7 years ago.

truedungeon.com/forum?view=topic&catid=5&id=242386#242480

I am sorry that I did not manage expectations better -- as some folks are disappointed in the Rare token they received with their Eldest token. It all was handled very poorly by me.

This whole thing started as a surprise "thank you" nearly seven years ago -- and at that time I got a some of angry emails after these appeared. Folks communicated the sentiment that "had I known this was happening, I would have gotten an $8K order" -- and they were mad that they missed out on something really cool that was coming after the eight Orbs were collected.

Therefore, I made it clear in the post above that the Eldest power would be "geeky fun" -- and nothing powerful that folks would feel bad about missing. Therefore, we decided to go with the fun "summon a spirit 1/game" concept to meet that stated goal. Believe me...it was tempting to make something UR powerful that would probably help out future token sales. However, I felt it was best to stick to our nearly 7 year old plan.

Yes...it would have been much better financially for TD to promise some UR level powerful token/power in advance (or after the surprise) but that has not been our style. We did the same "surprise revel" with the Rod of Seven Parts in 2008 -- which just showed up un-announced after the token year was over. I thought I was being "cool" with these un-announced thank you tokens, but unfortunately they have caused more woe and weal. I guess my brain just works differently than some.

I have learned my lesson...finally. I won't do these "surprise" thank you tokens any more. The $8K thank you token for 2023 will be announced soon -- as well as the exact power of the of their multi-year Uber-transmute.

Thank you for your understanding, support and willingness to put up with me screwing stuff up on occasion.

Jeff,
I thank you so much for all the hard work you do. Having to deal with both sides is never easy and I’m not in your position where all that heat is on me.

When these first came out, I was so excited. New, secret, mysterious… it was my choice to buy and invest knowing full well that at the end I could be let down. I saw the flurry of happy for those who got them, and anger from those who didn’t. The simple fact is… without these then TD as a whole will suffer, prices will jump, what you and your team can do will be restricted and everything will cost more. Even if this super orb would have been Uber powerful, there wouldn’t be many of them out there and 99% of player would have used them to collect and for fun, not to ruin the dungeon for others. I’m sorry so many take it as a bad thing but without them everything costs more for everyone at every step. A special thank you Uber I think is good for those who can get them as a way of showing how much they mean to our community. As I said above, without these orbs, what you have done over the last 8 years would not be where it is. It would be on a smaller scale and much more expensive.

Even though you told us not to expect something UR, knowing it was never coming, in my heart I wished you would change your mind. Every TD player matters, everyone is important, but just as with Legendary Tokens, they are hard to get and some might never have one but it’s an achievement and something that we can work towards.

When it finally came out what they did, I think it’s sooo cool. Not the UR my heart wanted, but still cool. I’m sad knowing that with this new slot in a matter of a few years, this amazing special token that is this big thank you will be diminished by a UR for a pyp and will be gone except for a collection. It really heartbreaking.

Having sad all of this, don’t ever loose the mysterious fun of TD. That’s what is amazing about TD and your team. Knowing every little thing means… no mystery, no intrigue, no surprise. You need to do what Jeff Martin creator of TD thinks is best. I don’t want to loose anyone in our community but you need to be yourself and keep doing what you do. You have laid out so much, known across years and years. Fun surprises, thank you things and all are apart of you and TD. Just like volunteer Tokens, I can’t do it atm but there out there and can be found, just like all 8 orbs. They all cost and it’s up to me to choose what I can do.

You are an amazing man, you have a huge community behind you growing constantly, no matter how heartbreaking it is to me about the end result of the orbs, I know you did your best to make everyone happy and try to make this game fun for all. Thank you and all of your TD team, volunteers and everyone who spends like they do, in order to allow me to play without having to sell my home to do it. No matter what, I will always stand behind you. This is an amazing game, and I am so thankful that you created it, nurtured it and made it into the creative mysterious dungeons we all love so much. I pray you have a great Skull Con and hope one day to Volunteer and help you create more fun for our community.

Gratefully,

Tyraël The Just

Fiddy wrote: Having given this quite a bit of thought over the last day, I think part of it is simply how the token (the dragon pet) is presented, and as a result how it is perceived. It looks like just another Rare token you'd get out of the treasure box. And one that I might easily just chuck into a transmute bag by mistake.

I think if it was simply printed as a special Rarity on say the same color token backing as the Dragon Orbs, it'd feel a lot more special to me. With the way it is currently presented though, it feels like 1/25th an Aragonite instead of something special.

Got my vote +1

I'm not going to have an Eldest Orb so no skin in the game for me. But I think it was clear it wouldn't be powerful. I expected it to be "geeky fun". I think the miss is that as a once-per-adventure ranged attack, and most players not focusing on ranged combat, it won't be used by many people. If it won't be used then not much fun.

It won't be used much because most builds don't have much ranged to-hit bonus. So in a Nightmare run it will miss most of the time for these builds.

I could spitball some ways to make it more likely to be used, and therefore more fun. Here is an idea: the pet always hits and you add the slide number to the damage wheel. So if you slide a 15 it hits for 15+damage wheel. If slide a 1 it's 1+damage wheel (or maybe it misses on a 1?).

Now if you have a melee build and get in a ranged combat you get one nice attack.

Jeff, I don't think you have anything to apologize for. You said at the start it would just be geeky fun, it's not your fault if anyone expected more.