TOPIC: Can a Bard Change Instruments instantaneously?

I was wondering if anyone can shed some light on this.

First - the Lyre of Echoes let's you get the bard effect full-time, but you only have to play it every other turn. So, clearly the intent is to let the Bard take another action every other turn. Does that include using a weapon? If so - does that mean the Bard can switch instantaneously to and from the instrument to the weapon?

And - if that is the case, can the Bard switch instantly from the Briano's Bodhan to Widseth's Lute? If so, it would let the Bard get a bardsong bonus every turn, and be able to take either a non-verbal action, or cast a spell, depending on which instrument he was using.

So - is that doable?

From what I remember reading Druegar say earlier (I haven't looked it up and could be wrong),

Switching from 1 Bards Instrument to another is a FREE ACTION (1 per round).
Inferring from this, yes, a Bard could pick and choose what to do if he had both UR instruments, at the cost of using his 1 FREE ACTION a round.
Using the Lyre of Echoes, the Bard can take whatever action he wants on his "off round". Again, this would use up his FREE ACTION to switch to a weapon or back to the Lyre of Echoes.

EDIT - Widseth's Lute doesn't need to be switched for Briano's Bodrahn. However the weapon being used with Widseth's Lute would. . .

Seems like LoE is like a half-power Bodhan, letting the bard cast spells every other turn instead of every turn... assuming spells is what you want to do.

truedungeon.com/forum?func=view&catid=525&id=147541#147552

That thread link answers your questions.

Its not as "cool" as it would seem. I've not figured out a way to "gain" the system.

Mike Steele wrote: Lyre of Echoes let's you get the bard effect full-time, but you only have to play it every other turn. So, clearly the intent is to let the Bard take another action every other turn. Does that include using a weapon?

Yes. Other than gaining the benefit of a bardsong, the "off-rounds" are, for all intents, just a normal round.

Mike Steele wrote: If so - does that mean the Bard can switch instantaneously to and from the instrument to the weapon?

If by "instantaneously" you mean "as a Free Action", then yes.

However, there are two big caveats:

1. To gain the benefits, bardsong must be played the entire round.
2. You can't gain the effects of two different instruments in the same round. If you played Lyre of Echoes on round 1 then switched to any other instrument on round 2, the new instrument would overwrite the LoE bardsong bonus.

Mike Steele wrote: can the Bard switch instantly from the Briano's Bodhan to Widseth's Lute?

You could, for example, play Briano's Blessed Bodhrán on round 1, Widseth's Mystical Lute on round 2, Magnificent Bard's Instrument on round 3, Lyre of Luck on round 4, etc.

Mike Steele wrote: would... the Bard get a bardsong bonus every turn, and be able to take either a non-verbal action, or cast a spell, depending on which instrument he was using.

Just to be annoyingly AR, the whole party gets the bardsong bonus, not just the bard.

But more to the point, this is legal:
Round 1: Bard* plays Widseth's Mystical Lute and attacks with a weapon. Party gains +1 To Hit and +2 Damage.
Round 2: Bard plays Briano's Blessed Bodhrán and casts a spell. Party gains +1 To Hit and +2 Damage.

bon?

*this example just happens to use a 4th-level bard

darkangel866 wrote: Widseth's Lute doesn't need to be switched for Briano's Bodrahn. However the weapon being used with Widseth's Lute would...

Just to be clear (read: AR) , with Widseth's you can attack with a weapon and play bardsong in the same round. With Briano's you can cast a spell and play bardsong in the same round. You can not cast & play with Widseth's nor can you attack with a weapon & play with Briano's.

Brad Mortensen wrote: Seems like LoE is like a half-power Bodhan, letting the bard cast spells every other turn instead of every turn... assuming spells is what you want to do.

Using your parlance I would say the Lyre of Echoes is both a half-power Widseth's and a half-power Briano's, though not at the same time.

Of course, when you play either Widseth's or Briano's your party enjoys an additional +1 to Damage over the normal bardsong bonuses whereas Lyre of Echoes just gives the standard bonuses.

Druegar wrote:

darkangel866 wrote: Widseth's Lute doesn't need to be switched for Briano's Bodrahn. However the weapon being used with Widseth's Lute would...

Just to be clear (read: AR) , with Widseth's you can attack with a weapon and play bardsong in the same round. With Briano's you can cast a spell and play bardsong in the same round. You can not cast & play with Widseth's nor can you attack with a weapon & play with Briano's.

I could have worded that a bit better. What I meant was:

Widseth's is not held in the hands, your weapon is. You can switch your weapon to Briano's as a free action. Either way, to switch from attack/spell (while using Bardsong) you must switch something out of your hands (and have the appropriate instrument active).

Which brings me to a different question. Can a Bard that has gained 5th level from an Orb/Scepter play an instrument that requires being held in the hands?

[quote="Druegar" post=148345But more to the point, this is legal:
Round 1: Bard* plays Widseth's Mystical Lute and attacks with a weapon. Party gains +1 To Hit and +2 Damage.
Round 1: Bard plays Briano's Blessed Bodhrán and casts a spell. Party gains +1 To Hit and +2 Damage.

bon?

*this example just happens to use a 4th-level bard [/quote]

Thanks! In your example, you mean Round 2 for the Briano's Blessed Bodhran, right? Also, the bonuses for a 4th level Bard would be +1 to Hit and +3 Damage wouldn't it - adding the +2 damage from the Lute/Bodhran to the +1/+1 Bardsong normally provides?

And you also answered my unspoken question, which was "My Bard already has a Widseth's Lute, should he also get a Briano's Blessed Bodhran?" The answer to that is YES!

darkangel866 wrote:

Druegar wrote:

darkangel866 wrote: Widseth's Lute doesn't need to be switched for Briano's Bodrahn. However the weapon being used with Widseth's Lute would...

Just to be clear (read: AR) , with Widseth's you can attack with a weapon and play bardsong in the same round. With Briano's you can cast a spell and play bardsong in the same round. You can not cast & play with Widseth's nor can you attack with a weapon & play with Briano's.

I could have worded that a bit better. What I meant was:

Widseth's is not held in the hands, your weapon is. You can switch your weapon to Briano's as a free action. Either way, to switch from attack/spell (while using Bardsong) you must switch something out of your hands (and have the appropriate instrument active).

Which brings me to a different question. Can a Bard that has gained 5th level from an Orb/Scepter play an instrument that requires being held in the hands?

I would think the only way that would work for the orb is if the Orb was in the off-hand in the ranged build. I don't see any way you could use an Orb or Scepter in the melee build as well as an instrument which required both hands.

I'm glad you brought that up though, because my Bard is using a Scepter of Might to get 5th Level. I'll have to adjust his build (either switch to a Crown of Might, or an Orb of Might off-hand ranged) to go along with the Boots and Girdle of Might to get 5th level, if I want him to be able to use Briano's as well as Widseth's.

I understand the logic behind the instrument taking up both hands. But, it seems like the the Bard should not be denied using the Orb in the melee off-hand to reach 5th level. This seems to fall in the same rules area as the ranged "sleaze" orb ruling. The Bard is not switching to a different melee weapon configuration, so the spirit of the "locked set" rule stays intact.

Mike Steele wrote: In your example, you mean Round 2 for the Briano's Blessed Bodhran, right?

dagnabbit! That'll teach me (yeah right) to rely on copy/paste.

I corrected the original post.

Mike Steele wrote: Also, the bonuses for a 4th level Bard would be +1 to Hit and +3 Damage wouldn't it - adding the +2 damage from the Lute/Bodhran to the +1/+1 Bardsong normally provides?

No. +1 To Hit and +2 Damage are accurate. The Token Guide page 158 , Quick Token Reference page 11 , and DMG page 14 all very clearly state the total bonus for bard instruments.
[img size=545,690] www.dantasyland.com/td/BardsongGrid2012t.gif [/img]

Mike Steele wrote: And you also answered my unspoken question, which was "My Bard already has a Widseth's Lute, should he also get a Briano's Blessed Bodhran?" The answer to that is YES!

Eeeeexcellent!
Now I'll make my token sales quota for March.

I'm 100% kidding, I do not get any kind of kickback.