TOPIC: Focus weapon clairification

jedibcg wrote:

Brad Mortensen wrote: I don't know of any weapons that affect AC or saves, so you could probably get away with "use best AC" to avoid a third AC column.

But if you're packing a magic ranged weapon, that hit bonus is in the "ranged to hit" number, so you might need to worry about that for sliding spells. You either need a third column, or have two "to hit" umber S in the casters' ranged hit box, or the player has to tell the DM what to deduct. Unless focus weapon bonuses should be added in.

I could have shield and weapon in melee but a two handed focus weapon in my spell. Or a two handed melee, but a shield and one handed focus weapon for my spell.

True, but as of today, the only two-handed focus weapon is for Wizards only, and they don't do shields. But that could change in the future.

But, to be fair, the whole bonus-to-slide issue is one we have today without the clarification. My +2 Sacred Sling gives +2 ranged hit, that affects Spiritual Hammer. But shouldn't. Just the Dex-based bonus should.

Speaking of, I thought coaches added the magic bonuses to the players' to-hit, but the slings and a lot of other weapons in the TokenDB say that the DM adds in the bonus. Am I confused? Well, yeah, but I mean specifically about magic to-hit bonuses...

Edit: OBTW, it sounds like only weapons of Focus allow casting with your hands full. Sounds like Rings and Medallions do not.

Brad Mortensen wrote:

jedibcg wrote:

Brad Mortensen wrote: I don't know of any weapons that affect AC or saves, so you could probably get away with "use best AC" to avoid a third AC column.

But if you're packing a magic ranged weapon, that hit bonus is in the "ranged to hit" number, so you might need to worry about that for sliding spells. You either need a third column, or have two "to hit" umber S in the casters' ranged hit box, or the player has to tell the DM what to deduct. Unless focus weapon bonuses should be added in.

I could have shield and weapon in melee but a two handed focus weapon in my spell. Or a two handed melee, but a shield and one handed focus weapon for my spell.

True, but as of today, the only two-handed focus weapon is for Wizards only, and they don't do shields. But that could change in the future.

But, to be fair, the whole bonus-to-slide issue is one we have today without the clarification. My +2 Sacred Sling gives +2 ranged hit, that affects Spiritual Hammer. But shouldn't. Just the Dex-based bonus should.

Speaking of, I thought coaches added the magic bonuses to the players' to-hit, but the slings and a lot of other weapons in the TokenDB say that the DM adds in the bonus. Am I confused? Well, yeah, but I mean specifically about magic to-hit bonuses...

Edit: OBTW, it sounds like only weapons of Focus allow casting with your hands full. Sounds like Rings and Medallions do not.

Correct. I was coming up with a hypothetical. Though the other way would is still token possible. A Druid can have a +1 Darkwood Staff, +1 Greater Scimitar, +1 Iron Long Spear, +2 Long Spear of Dragonslaying, +2 Staff of Striking (I skipped the +2 Quarter Staff because I didn't think woody weapons were still legal but could be wrong about that), and a few non-magical weapons as his main melee weapon and a shield and +2 Baton of Focus in his spell.

Though you probably use most of these weapons as your melee when you own a +2 Baton of Focus, but it is possible.

Brad Mortensen wrote: I thought coaches added the magic bonuses to the players' to-hit, but the slings and a lot of other weapons in the TokenDB say that the DM adds in the bonus.

Semantics
The DM will add the +X from a magic weapon because it's been included on the party card by coaches.

Brad Mortensen wrote: it sounds like only weapons of Focus allow casting with your hands full. Sounds like Rings and Medallions do not.

That's correct.

@jedibcg - woodie weapons with a damage wheel are legal. Woodie weapons without a wheel are not.

What was the reason for this? It doesn't seem to be a clarification, as it's definitely more confusing now.

SageSTL wrote: What was the reason for this? It doesn't seem to be a clarification, as it's definitely more confusing now.

At a guess - this is the first year a focus weapon is available at a rarity below ultra rare - it was probably intended to head off new players getting a staff of focus and trying to cast and slide at the same time.

That being said the response from Jeff mediated by Druegar here seems to make it pretty clear that having free hands to cast spells was how Jeff always thought it worked - the few oddities this causes when switching between modes and set bonuses were probably just never considered.

If it was to stop players from thinking they could cast and attack we already handled that with number of standard actions. You could be right just seems odd.

I blame Eric. If that bunny hadn't been chopping our arms off, we wouldn't have to have a ruling regarding two hands

jedibcg wrote: If it was to stop players from thinking they could cast and attack we already handled that with number of standard actions. You could be right just seems odd.

Yeah, that didn't seem unclear.

Well - I feel like I've internalized all this now.

Pardon my pedantry - I'm trying to nail down what I need to understand to play correctly and color within the lines.

100% correct interpretation of the expressed rules within the dungeon presents some practical challenges - but they are challenges we already deal with and are not limited to spellcasting, things like:

* Bards who equip a shield should have their AC reduced when they are doing bardsong, but instead I suspect the number written on the party card is used.
* Players who equip weapons of different +N's in the dungeon should have their to-hit modified, but instead I suspect the one presented in the coaching room is recorded on the party card, and used in the dungeon
* Players could equip a shield in melee mode in the coaching room, and then wield a 2 handed weapon in the dungeon. I suspect the shield's AC would be used in the dungeon as it's on the coaching card.

So, here is how I internalize this rules clarification for spells, and how I intend to play unless someone wants to set me straight!

== Technical Rules ==
(Called "technical" because as we will see below for practical reasons all the implications of this will probably not be effective in the dungeon)

1. There are technically 4 (or more?) attack modes:

* Melee
* Ranged
* Spell
* Bardsong
* (Possibly a 5th mode: Scroll Reading if the rules differ from Spell mode)

2. Each attack mode technically has a different AC based on what is equipped in the hands of that mode.

3. Spell slides technically have a to-hit bonus that may differ from the to-hit bonus recorded on the party card.

4. Players may switch from any attack mode to any attack mode with 1 free action, the contents of their hands become appropriate equipment to that mode as part of this mode change (restrained by per-mode set bonus rules as normal). Their hands needen't have what was equipped in the coaching room, just items appropriate to the mode .

== Practical Considerations ==

For the purposes of simplicity, the following shortcuts are used in the dungeon by DMs in calculating stats:

S1. The AC of the Spell and Bardsong modes are not recorded on the party card - even if it would differ.

S2. The spell to-hit bonus for spells requiring a slide are not printed on the party card.

== What I am Assuming ==

A1. Character AC will be interpreted as melee or ranged AC, even in other modes - due to limitations of space on the party card.

A2. Character spell to-hit modifiers will be based on what is written on the party card for either melee or ranged mode - due to limitations of space on the party card.

== Concrete questions ==

1. What figure will DMs use to deduce player AC when the player is casting a spell or performing Bardsong - as these ACs are not recorded on the party card? Melee AC? Ranged AC? Module dependent?

2. Ought a player to inform the DM that their spell slide to-hit differs from the modifier written on the party card (for instance when a wizard has a +1 ranged weapon that is reflected in the ranged to-hit modifier on the party card)?

3. Ought a player to inform the DM of changes to their AC to hit modifiers from the party card as a result of mode switches or equipment changes (e.g. moving from a +2 Viper Strike Fang and shield to a two handed +1 staff against a monster immune to piercing and slashing damage)?

OMG - how am I going to get all this toothpaste back in this tube?

Can a Ranger using two Viper Strike Daggers to complete a set bonus even cast a spell? They can't break the set bonus, but need two hands to cast, correct?