TOPIC: Let's make sure we are always nice to newbies

I have always been open to lending out my tokens in the coaching room...

I appreciate the comments made here... I might not have been mindful in lending in a manner that isn't pushy...

I will be sure to be more careful in the future.

I have no problems lending tokens... but I have lost a few, luckily nothing more valuable than red rares... but still worth in the tens of dollars.

One thing I haven't done is "dummy down" my pally when running normal with pick-up groups, I never considered that, but I will be sure to do that in the future. I do have a rare-only build of any of the classes, so I will be sure to bring them along.

MasterED wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote:

MasterED wrote:

Kirk Bauer wrote: Oh, and that brings up something I meant to mention in my first post but neglected to, and that is the greed factor. If you have newbies in the group please don't screw them on treasure or tokens. If they find a UR in their 10-pack makes sure they know it is worth "$75-$100". Don't work out sleazy deals when loaning your treasure enhancers. Don't try to scam them of their treasure draws. I know this has all happened.

On the other hand, those of us who have a bunch of CoAs or CoGFs want that synergy bonus, so we are incentivized to loan out treasure tokens. I don't think it is unreasonable to ask for a kickback. I'm thinking something along the lines of "Hey, I have this token that you can virtually borrow if you want. It gives you 13 extra treasure draws on top of your normal three. If you want to give me six of them it would be appreciated but it is totally up to you."

Or is that even going too far?

I agree don't screw the new players because of their lack of knowledge on pricing of tokens. For splitting treasure it is all about the approach - don't pressure them and be fair (split it it with them). If you loan them a CoA and they now get 16 treasure instead of 3 - 8 a piece is an easy split. If anyone isn't interested then take no politely and still treat them with respect and enjoy the game.

Ed

8 each may be an "easy split" - but I don't like it.

Here is what is happening:

Newbie doesn't take the offer:

Vet gets: 15 (3+CoA with 9 player synergy)
Newbie gets: 3
Total treasure: 18

Newbie takes the offer:
Vet gets: 24
Newbie gets: 8
Total treasure: 32


The newbie has given up a charm slot on their character in order to generate +14 treasure in total, of which the helpful vet keeps 9 (almost 66%).

Who among the veterans would like to give up a charm slot so that they can get 1/3rd of treasure generated while another player gets 2/3rds?

Most new players can't even fill all three charm slots and if they could would they give up a charm slot for 5 treasure - Almost all will,I am sure you would too. But if they aren't interested - a no is a no.

Ed

I guess I'd just challenge you, and other people who approve of renting TEs in the coaching room, to ask yourself this questions:


Why are you engaging in the behavior of renting your TEs to new players in exchange for treasure, is it:

A. Purely for selfless reasons for the benefit of the new players and/or establishing some kind of team rapport?
B. At least in some way, for the reason that you want more treasure?


If the answer is A the course is clear: just let the new player keep all the treasure from your loaned URTEs.


If you are not willing to loan your TEs to new players without remuneration (even expressed as an optional remuneration), then acknowledge, at least to yourself, that the answer is B and that your behavior here is partially motivated for your desire for more treasure.

Then ask yourself if engaging with new players in a manner that is at least partially motivated by and achieves the ends of you getting more treasure is a good way to "always be nice to newbies" or not.

Matthew Hayward wrote:

MasterED wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote:

MasterED wrote:

Kirk Bauer wrote: Oh, and that brings up something I meant to mention in my first post but neglected to, and that is the greed factor. If you have newbies in the group please don't screw them on treasure or tokens. If they find a UR in their 10-pack makes sure they know it is worth "$75-$100". Don't work out sleazy deals when loaning your treasure enhancers. Don't try to scam them of their treasure draws. I know this has all happened.

On the other hand, those of us who have a bunch of CoAs or CoGFs want that synergy bonus, so we are incentivized to loan out treasure tokens. I don't think it is unreasonable to ask for a kickback. I'm thinking something along the lines of "Hey, I have this token that you can virtually borrow if you want. It gives you 13 extra treasure draws on top of your normal three. If you want to give me six of them it would be appreciated but it is totally up to you."

Or is that even going too far?

I agree don't screw the new players because of their lack of knowledge on pricing of tokens. For splitting treasure it is all about the approach - don't pressure them and be fair (split it it with them). If you loan them a CoA and they now get 16 treasure instead of 3 - 8 a piece is an easy split. If anyone isn't interested then take no politely and still treat them with respect and enjoy the game.

Ed

8 each may be an "easy split" - but I don't like it.

Here is what is happening:

Newbie doesn't take the offer:

Vet gets: 15 (3+CoA with 9 player synergy)
Newbie gets: 3
Total treasure: 18

Newbie takes the offer:
Vet gets: 24
Newbie gets: 8
Total treasure: 32


The newbie has given up a charm slot on their character in order to generate +14 treasure in total, of which the helpful vet keeps 9 (almost 66%).

Who among the veterans would like to give up a charm slot so that they can get 1/3rd of treasure generated while another player gets 2/3rds?

Most new players can't even fill all three charm slots and if they could would they give up a charm slot for 5 treasure - Almost all will,I am sure you would too. But if they aren't interested - a no is a no.

Ed

I guess I'd just challenge you, and other people who approve of renting TEs in the coaching room, to ask yourself this questions:


Why are you engaging in the behavior of renting your TEs to new players in exchange for treasure, is it:

A. Purely for selfless reasons for the benefit of the new players and/or establishing some kind of team rapport?
B. At least in some way, for the reason that you want more treasure?


If the answer is A the course is clear: just let the new player keep all the treasure from your loaned URTEs.


If you are not willing to loan your TEs to new players without remuneration (even expressed as an optional remuneration), then acknowledge, at least to yourself, that the answer is B and that your behavior here is partially motivated for your desire for more treasure.

Then ask yourself if engaging with new players in a manner that is at least partially motivated by and achieves the ends of you getting more treasure is a good way to "always be nice to newbies" or not.

My response to this is, and always will be, that occasionally deals like this, whether explicit or implied, are not always a bad thing.

I had been playing for years, not really buying anything, but trading what I got in my starters and my treasure pulls. Even getting swindled once when I pulled a greater cloak of destiny and trading it for a +2 holy greatsword.

One run last year, I ran into a vet, who loaned us all CoAs for a split.

Since then I and others in my crew have substantially increased our TD investment, and TD got another 8K preorder out of the deal.

I might have done that if the CoAs were loaned freely as well, but the split didn't bother me.

Hell, I had an extra charm slot because the player mat only had 2 spaces even though I was allowed to wear 3, so it was literally nothing but empty space.

Is it better to do it in advance, sure?
Should it be required, I don't think so, even if the player loaning had B as their motivation.

Matthew Hayward wrote: Who among the veterans would like to give up a charm slot so that they can get 1/3rd of treasure generated while another player gets 2/3rds?

Many wear a CoGF and only draw 2. 4 if they're lucky. Who cares what others get?

Then ask yourself if engaging with new players in a manner that is at least partially motivated by and achieves the ends of you getting more treasure is a good way to "always be nice to newbies" or not.

Because the first question I always ask my new dentist is, "do you love looking at people's nasty teeth and smelling skanky breath, or do you just want to make money?"

And I never tip a server if they work for tips. They should bring me my food for the love of meeting new people and being nice.

Neither true, of course. I honestly don't see what motives have to do with anything. If someone ties up $15k in CoAs and Nuggets then wants to earn some return on their investment, I'd much rather they let a newbie wear them and keep some treasure than to suck up tickets for ghosts. It's called "mutual benefit."

And I understand that many didn't PAY that much for their CoAs, but they could turn around and sell them and buy something else. It's an opportunity cost if not an actual cash outlay.

If BC wants to lend them for free, Pelor bless him. But a lot of vets would rather buy half a new car if there is no other incentive for them to hang onto them. There are much cheaper ways to "be nice."

Brad Mortensen wrote: If BC wants to lend them for free, Pelor bless him. But a lot of vets would rather buy half a new car if there is no other incentive for them to hang onto them. There are much cheaper ways to "be nice."

Doesn't cost me a dime to lend my CoA's so not certain how there is a cheaper way.

jedibcg wrote:

Brad Mortensen wrote: If BC wants to lend them for free, Pelor bless him. But a lot of vets would rather buy half a new car if there is no other incentive for them to hang onto them. There are much cheaper ways to "be nice."

Doesn't cost me a dime to lend my CoA's so not certain how there is a cheaper way.

But it does cost you money to own those CoAs. You could sell them and put the money in your 401(k), where it will hopefully grow. That's money you're losing out on. That's what I mean by "opportunity cost."

If you have any credit card debt, or a car payment, or a mortgage, the interest you pay every month could be reduced by selling you CoAs and paying them off. It's like you're paying rent on your tokens but you don't realize it...

Then just be your charming self for free

You're right, it doesn't cost you anymore to lend them than it does to keep them in your binder or bury them in the backyard.

Brad Mortensen wrote:

jedibcg wrote:

Brad Mortensen wrote: If BC wants to lend them for free, Pelor bless him. But a lot of vets would rather buy half a new car if there is no other incentive for them to hang onto them. There are much cheaper ways to "be nice."

Doesn't cost me a dime to lend my CoA's so not certain how there is a cheaper way.

But it does cost you money to own those CoAs. You could sell them and put the money in your 401(k), where it will hopefully grow. That's money you're losing out on. That's what I mean by "opportunity cost."

If you have any credit card debt, or a car payment, or a mortgage, the interest you pay every month could be reduced by selling you CoAs and paying them off. It's like you're paying rent on your tokens but you don't realize it...

Then just be your charming self for free

You're right, it doesn't cost you anymore to lend them than it does to keep them in your binder or bury them in the backyard.

Since I use them with my group selling doesn't seem the best option. But you are correct I could sell all my tokens and pay a big chunk in my mortgage and just play with the ten pack. But I don't want to.

jedibcg wrote:

Brad Mortensen wrote:

jedibcg wrote:

Brad Mortensen wrote: If BC wants to lend them for free, Pelor bless him. But a lot of vets would rather buy half a new car if there is no other incentive for them to hang onto them. There are much cheaper ways to "be nice."

Doesn't cost me a dime to lend my CoA's so not certain how there is a cheaper way.

But it does cost you money to own those CoAs. You could sell them and put the money in your 401(k), where it will hopefully grow. That's money you're losing out on. That's what I mean by "opportunity cost."

If you have any credit card debt, or a car payment, or a mortgage, the interest you pay every month could be reduced by selling you CoAs and paying them off. It's like you're paying rent on your tokens but you don't realize it...

Then just be your charming self for free

You're right, it doesn't cost you anymore to lend them than it does to keep them in your binder or bury them in the backyard.

Since I use them with my group selling doesn't seem the best option. But you are correct I could sell all my tokens and pay a big chunk in my mortgage and just play with the ten pack. But I don't want to.

Me too, and me either

jedibcg wrote: I could sell all my tokens and pay a big chunk in my mortgage and just play with the ten pack.

Those words make no sense. That's just CrAzY talk!

Druegar wrote:

jedibcg wrote: I could sell all my tokens and pay a big chunk in my mortgage and just play with the ten pack.

Those words make no sense. That's just CrAzY talk!

I agree today. Right before I bought my house it was a serious consideration for a big down payment.

jedibcg wrote: My take on treasure has been if you or I work out a deal ahead of time cool. I don't like deals in the coaching room. Earlier interaction with your party shouldn't be to barter, imo. If on am on a pug run and you want to use my CoA and ISSN cool, if not cool. I am not on the run to make treasure off someone. I have benefited from the generosity of the TD community previously so I like to play it foward good karma and whatnot. That is me. You play your way. If I am on a run with you though don't bother trying to barter in the coaches room though because I will undercut you be loaning for zero treasure. Ha I may have made the number of folks that will run with me go down.

Be careful - Raven might outbid you - I think she has to give a treasure away anyhow

She does have to give one last I knew.