TOPIC: Proposed 2017 "special" Token Effects

Rob F wrote:

MasterED wrote: ...So to avoid class changes just make it the +1 level bump and the end of room 3 roll d20

1-5 - Lose 10 HP, suffer -2 to all saves, and lose all remaining special powers/spells.
6-9 - Lose 10 HP and suffer -2 to all saves
10-15 - All spells, special powers restored
16-20 - All spells, special powers restored and fully healed

Something like that.

Ed

Like this idea alot Ed. But I would slightly change the die range to 1-4, 5-8, 9-15, 16-20

As a cleric, if there's even a 5% chance I lose all my spells and turn into a suboptimal fighter for the second half of the dungeon, I'm never going to use it. And by "never," I mean never.

I can't imagine many wizards would take that chance, either.

Brad Mortensen wrote:

Rob F wrote:

MasterED wrote: ...So to avoid class changes just make it the +1 level bump and the end of room 3 roll d20

1-5 - Lose 10 HP, suffer -2 to all saves, and lose all remaining special powers/spells.
6-9 - Lose 10 HP and suffer -2 to all saves
10-15 - All spells, special powers restored
16-20 - All spells, special powers restored and fully healed

Something like that.

Ed

Like this idea alot Ed. But I would slightly change the die range to 1-4, 5-8, 9-15, 16-20

As a cleric, if there's even a 5% chance I lose all my spells and turn into a suboptimal fighter for the second half of the dungeon, I'm never going to use it. And by "never," I mean never.

I can't imagine many wizards would take that chance, either.

Agreed.

I think perhaps anyone making proposals for lower powered effects should announce their intention to equip the AoW should their proposal be accepted.

Cavor wrote: Amulet of Wonder: Seems way too powerful for single UR.

Last year it granted a power that was 2x the effect of a printed UR in the same slot, so I'm not sure "too powerful for a UR" is a good argument.

There have been years where this has been a dud, depending on the rest of your build/preferences, so I think it's OK for it's power level to oscillate.

Knowing what room you get a reset in makes it highly “gameable”, we have enough of that already.

You want less gaming in true dungeon ?

]There is also no potential downside and no random effect, removing the unique traditional aspect of this token.

Unless by downside you mean "opportunity cost of having equipped something else in that slot" there has never been a downside to the AoW effect.

Here is what I would do:

Amulet of Wonder: You get +1 level. In addition, randomly at the end of room 3-5 you get a fresh random character card (any class), thus resetting all your cast spells, powers, HP, etc. to the new card. All of your stats remain the same, only your class changes.

I don't think this can happen in practice:

1. Two rogues creates a problem with the Rogue box.

2. Two bards creates problems with "does bardsong stack?" rules.

3. Two rangers or monks causes problems with pucks in combat.

4. There is an excellent chance your new class couldn't wield your weapon.

5. In general, moving from spellcaster to melee is going to be a huge bummer for many spellcaster builds, as you'd be sliding for 20s on higher difficulty levels.

Basically this is a huge power up if you happen to switch from melee to spellcaster (keep your old stats, get a card of spells), and a huge nerf in the other direction.


Something like this was done in Grind last year, where two characters could get their classes swapped.

In my run at least, this was not the most fun mechanic, as the people who had prepped for their prepared classes found themselves playing as another class they were unfamiliar with / not geared for.

Matthew Hayward wrote: Something like this was done in Grind last year, where two characters could get their classes swapped.

In my run at least, this was not the most fun mechanic, as the people who had prepped for their prepared classes found themselves playing as another class they were unfamiliar with / not geared for.

Well, that's part of the "anything can happen" aspect of Grind, and it usually happened in the last "room." And, because of the small numbers of DMs, consistency wasn't a problem and the resulting chaos was manageable.

In the main dungeon, it would be apocalyptic. Too many DMs, too many scenarios. Just take an extra character card out of the coaching room, of whatever class you started with, and call it a day. If you want a random die roll as to what does and doesn't refresh, fine.

The problem is, the refresh isn't very exciting for rogues and fighters, and "nerf my abilities" is too heinous for casters to consider. So maybe one size does not fit all.

Maybe, instead, do this:

Once per game, player may use any ability or cast any spell from another player's card. Effect lasts one round.

So, player can do a basic Bard song (no instrument, stacks with other Bard song because harmony), open a rogue box, throw a fireball, restore someone's spell, use the fighter's +hit instead of their own, etc.

Raven wrote: As an afterthought....

I realized we could have problems if multiple players on one run wanted to burn their UR Special to become a "unique" class. How many Kvothes would be allowed per team? And how would they be handled on a party card?

Raven, great point, multiple Kvothes in a group could cause problems.

Although, if a group wants to burn multiple UR Special tokens, maybe let them go with multiple Kvothes.

Matthew Hayward wrote:
Something like this was done in Grind last year, where two characters could get their classes swapped.

In my run at least, this was not the most fun mechanic, as the people who had prepped for their prepared classes found themselves playing as another class they were unfamiliar with / not geared for.

I saw this at GenCon and at Gamehole Con. I thought it was a blast! It only took a round to swap weapons and get back into the fray. If you are playing in TG, you should have some familiarity with all the classes.

The special as listed is "meh" in my opinion.
I like Raven's idea!!

I'd actually burn a special on that.

valetutto wrote: The special as listed is "meh" in my opinion.
I like Raven's idea!!

I'd actually burn a special on that.

I think it was Binia's idea, but Raven an I jumped on board, as long as having multiple Kvothe's in a group isn't a deal breaker.

Mike Steele wrote:

valetutto wrote: The special as listed is "meh" in my opinion.
I like Raven's idea!!

I'd actually burn a special on that.

I think it was Binia's idea, but Raven an I jumped on board, as long as having multiple Kvothe's in a group isn't a deal breaker.

to get that you also need an idea that is more far fetched so yours looks better
like a die roll
where you get an artifact power
roll x=double a slot
roll x+1=get to ask a favor
roll x+2= critt on 17+(i think that is one of smaks)
roll X+3 get to fly once per adventure(no restrictions)
roll x+4 =etc

Beertram wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote:
Something like this was done in Grind last year, where two characters could get their classes swapped.

In my run at least, this was not the most fun mechanic, as the people who had prepped for their prepared classes found themselves playing as another class they were unfamiliar with / not geared for.

I saw this at GenCon and at Gamehole Con. I thought it was a blast! It only took a round to swap weapons and get back into the fray. If you are playing in TG, you should have some familiarity with all the classes.

I don't want to derail this thread, so I'll just say:

a. Familiarity is not the same as preparedness. I'm familiar with the Bard class. I am not prepared to identify Bardic runes.

b. For the benefit of lurkers, familiarity with each class is in no way prerequisite for playing Grind. Enjoying TD combat mechanics is all you need.

I like Jeffs original idea for the Aow since it would be easy to implement. Room 1-4 gms use dry erase markers, room 4 gm says ok wipe your cards. Or maybe cards arnt marked at all in rooms 1-4 at all. Anything involving card swapping has the potential to be really messy. What if they run out of say cleric cards, what if someone forgets they're i room 4 and wants to just run back, etc even the explinations could bottle neck stuff.

In terms of Ravens idea, again implementation would be the trick. We could have the coaches hand out the Kvothe character cards, then just print a custom part card that has an extra row for Kvothe with stats already filled in, 2 Kvothes in the party no problem, scratch out 2 rows and have the gm use the Kvothe row when looking for those classes stats. Might actually be easier for the coaches.

Everyone,

Thanks for all the great feedback here. Let's try these at TDC and see what happens. We can tweak them for Gen Con and beyond if needed (I'm looking at you AoW Special).

Let me give more info on the powers below:

Amulet of Wonder Special : You get +1 level. In addition, at the end of room 4 you get a fresh character card (same class), thus resetting all your cast spells, powers, HP, and anything else that is tracked on the player card. For effects that are NOT tracked on the card (like Psychic powers), these are not effected by the AoW Special. Think of it as a 9th level spell called "Re-charge All Stuff and Take Away Bad Things". All negative effects are removed. All positive effects remain (runestones, etc.)

Eldritch Runestone: You may equip one extra ioun stone

Special Amulet of Wonder: You become a Sygaldry Master. Show a runestone (any, other than Eldritch) to your coach:

• Gain triple the effect (if applicable)
• If the runestone normally effects only a certain attack/weapon type, it affects all your attacks
• You may keep the runestone

Thanks again for the feedback and I apologize for the slow reply.


Strikethrough changes by Druegar on behalf of Jeff