TOPIC: Re: Dragonscale

*Thump<br />*Thump<br />*Thump<br /><br />No, we aren't<br /><br />*Thump<br />*Thump<br />*Thump

GOOD to see we can still agree...yes indeed - fun!<br /><br />Ok lemme see - since when is bashing a lock 100% a sure deal...in my D&D game - that could leave you without a pick lock chance.<br /><br />AND since when does a WIZ have good HP?  (some things need to stay true to game...D&D deviant though TD might be...)<br /><br />I guess my gripe is I want to see the PAL or FIG with the best in GAME AC.  I would not mind the BAR even...but not the Bard or Druid.<br /><br />OH - as for Kim's point of Druid AC keeping him in the game longer...well - what is the good in that - the healing has to go towards other chars in that case cuz the Druid is not being hit...see I like the balance I think H is looking for - you take the D down in AC and now his healing OR the Cleric's is going to fixing them up...IF the C had DEX bonus I would target that as well as not too many TANKS get great armor and ability to add DEX points.

The Druid is inferior to the Cleric in pretty much every category except for statistics.  If you drop those, then it is an inferior class across the board, and what's the point of that?  The Druid is only the highest AC if you've got the largely out of print Dragonscale items - and I see that as a reward to the major token buyers.  It certainly doesn't throw the Druid out of whack as far as the VAST majority of True Dungeon groups go, since there are very few people with all the Dragonscale items.  <br /><br />I think I'll bow out of the Druid discussion now, as all the points have been made over and over again, and it seems pointless to keep reiterating them.  I certainly feel that the Druid should be left as is. 

The good in that has to do with the contributions that the person can make due to the fact that they are harder to hit because of the excellent AC and the likelihood that they will make it to the end of the dungeon.<br /><br />Kim

Well if stats mean nothing - I hope we bring in a new wizard type with much better stats...maybe that will make the case some of us seem to be missing.<br /><br />an Illusionist with better AC than the WIZ and offensive and defensive spells will do nicely!

One thing I really do dislike about these discussion is my impression, rightly or wrongly, that people enter into them to 'defend their turf'. Play a druid? Defend a druid. Don't play a druid? Attack a druid. I find that sort of infuriating that people can't seem to detach themselves from their own preferences. I've said this before and I've yet to have anyone comment on it but I think it's in TD's best interest to decrease the power of character classes in general and hopefully cause a greater reliance on tokens. This was hard in the beginning because of the dramatic shift from 'no tokens needed' to armor and weapons needed, but now that we've had a year of stability, it's time to continue the march. Instead, we always seem to hit this brick wall of people protecting their 'turf'. What's sometimes most obnoxious is that often times it's the same individuals who were wanting a 'nightmare difficulty' setting or a pumped up hardcore or saying the dungeon was too easy or whatever. GAH.<br /><br />I guess it's just human nature but it's a personal pet peeve.

I like more of a fine line - tokens help - but the CHARS need to be balanced...or at least true to D&D.

Yep. Which is pretty much my take on the druid. I mean, seriously, is there anyone out there other than me who wants to play a druid, has DS equip, and has still come to the conclusion that there should be tweaks?

I'd play the druid in a heartbeat...it is my #2 choice...

<br />One thing I really do dislike about these discussion is my impression, rightly or wrongly, that people enter into them to 'defend their turf'. Play a druid? Defend a druid. Don't play a druid? Attack a druid. I find that sort of infuriating that people can't seem to detach themselves from their own preferences. I've said this before and I've yet to have anyone comment on it but I think it's in TD's best interest to decrease the power of character classes in general and hopefully cause a greater reliance on tokens. This was hard in the beginning because of the dramatic shift from 'no tokens needed' to armor and weapons needed, but now that we've had a year of stability, it's time to continue the march. Instead, we always seem to hit this brick wall of people protecting their 'turf'.

<br /><br />Personally, I consider myself very detached from my own preference.  I am looking at the statistics.  You mention the Dex of the Druid and how out of whack it is but really, the +6 Dex on the Druid makes little difference in the success or failure of a group going through a Dungeon (that on average will block like 1 attacks against the Druid per adventure).  50HPs of healing makes a HUGE difference in the success or failure of a group, effectively "blocking" 8-12 attacks against anyone in the group.<br /><br />Further, only a very small percentage of players have Dragonscale Armor.  For the rest of the players, IMO the Reinforced Leather Druid (18AC) is balanced with other classes.<br /><br />My point was (and then I will join Mike on the sidelines) that for the majority of players, the Druid is not the most powerful class (even with the +6 Dex).  And philosophically, if there is going to be a discussion on playbalance, it makes logical sense to look at nerfing the most powerful class (clearly the Cleric IMO) or boosting the weakest class (arguably the Monk, Barbarian, Rogue, or Wizard) before looking inward.<br /><br />If the Druid were clearly and by a significant margin the most powerful class for a majority of players, then I think talking about bringing him down a notch makes sense.  I guess what doesn't make sense to me is to pass over the most powerful class because he is the "healer" or to compare the Druid to one of the weaker classes as "proof" that the Druid is too powerful.<br /><br />For me, the bottom line is that not all classes are equal.  It is a true statement to say that there are some classes that are stronger than others.  So to me, focusing on a stat like Dex and saying "Why does the Druid have more Dex than the Rogue" just seems beneath the RADAR of things that we should be talking about.  :/  I think focusing on the lower end is much more productive.<br /><br />Ok, Mike, room on that fallen oak tree bench for me too? 

Why in the world would you direct that response to me? I think the cleric should have its healing reducd to stimulate token use and combat heal creep. That was established repeatedly and pages ago.

Mike and Douglas,<br />        I hope that bench is big enough for room for me too.<br /><br />Kim