TOPIC: My charms for your $$

Matthew Hayward wrote: The lack of trust on this board borders on paranoia.

Lots of my buyers are not active on the forums. If you watch eBay sales, you'll see lots of sellers who are also not active on the forums. If you talk with volunteers at Gen Con, you'll encounter lots of them who are multi-year volunteers who are not active on the forums.

If you require safety in your transactions, pay via PayPal goods and services, PayPal will side with the buyer if there is a dispute - no trust required.

I've had a few PMs with the seller, looks like they managed to make an arrangement.

It is not helpful to anyone, and harms your own credibility, to be slinging around insinuations that someone is untrustworthy without evidence.

i was suspicious, first post was selling high end tokens
second, I ask for a location to try to find someone to go and look. Sent in pm and posted here(no reply from seller )
3rd, needed money today.
if you lurk and watch the board, people are nice and do help. There have people been burned (long before most were here).
i get scam phone calls at my business all the time. it is what it seemed like. especially when I got no reply. it isnt like it was $20. it was 2700$. paypal may have your back but it has taken months for me to get refunds from paypal
So Sorry for being careful

lazlo_hollyfeld1985 wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote: The lack of trust on this board borders on paranoia.

Lots of my buyers are not active on the forums. If you watch eBay sales, you'll see lots of sellers who are also not active on the forums. If you talk with volunteers at Gen Con, you'll encounter lots of them who are multi-year volunteers who are not active on the forums.

If you require safety in your transactions, pay via PayPal goods and services, PayPal will side with the buyer if there is a dispute - no trust required.

I've had a few PMs with the seller, looks like they managed to make an arrangement.

It is not helpful to anyone, and harms your own credibility, to be slinging around insinuations that someone is untrustworthy without evidence.

i was suspicious, first post was selling high end tokens
second, I ask for a location to try to find someone to go and look. Sent in pm and posted here(no reply from seller )
3rd, needed money today.
if you lurk and watch the board, people are nice and do help. There have people been burned (long before most were here).
i get scam phone calls at my business all the time. it is what it seemed like. especially when I got no reply. it isnt like it was $20. it was 2700$. paypal may have your back but it has taken months for me to get refunds from paypal
So Sorry for being careful

I would never criticize anyone for exercising a degree of caution they feel is appropriate when dealing with large dollar amounts and strangers.

I just don't think it's right to be insinuating that something fishy is going on without evidence. For all we know Jay is an upright person. If you don't think so, don't do business with them - no need for public insinuations to the contrary.

Matthew Hayward wrote:
I just don't think it's right to be insinuating that something fishy is going on without evidence.

I don't think Lazlo did anything of the sort.

Matthew Hayward wrote:

lazlo_hollyfeld1985 wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote: The lack of trust on this board borders on paranoia.

Lots of my buyers are not active on the forums. If you watch eBay sales, you'll see lots of sellers who are also not active on the forums. If you talk with volunteers at Gen Con, you'll encounter lots of them who are multi-year volunteers who are not active on the forums.

If you require safety in your transactions, pay via PayPal goods and services, PayPal will side with the buyer if there is a dispute - no trust required.

I've had a few PMs with the seller, looks like they managed to make an arrangement.

It is not helpful to anyone, and harms your own credibility, to be slinging around insinuations that someone is untrustworthy without evidence.

i was suspicious, first post was selling high end tokens
second, I ask for a location to try to find someone to go and look. Sent in pm and posted here(no reply from seller )
3rd, needed money today.
if you lurk and watch the board, people are nice and do help. There have people been burned (long before most were here).
i get scam phone calls at my business all the time. it is what it seemed like. especially when I got no reply. it isnt like it was $20. it was 2700$. paypal may have your back but it has taken months for me to get refunds from paypal
So Sorry for being careful

I would never criticize anyone for exercising a degree of caution they feel is appropriate when dealing with large dollar amounts and strangers.

I just don't think it's right to be insinuating that something fishy is going on without evidence. For all we know Jay is an upright person. If you don't think so, don't do business with them - no need for public insinuations to the contrary.

Yes it is okay to insinuate
When I asked a simple question and don't get a response. Hell yes I am going to think it is a prince of Egypt scam.
I get scam phone calls daily.
I have been scamed in here. Granted it was for 20$ In 2008. But still. I told people what I asked and still had no response
I don't want someone being taken advantage of.
If a deal is too good to be true....
I would love to have read the Pms the guy got.
I bet people even offered lower than he was asking. Or acted like a pawn shop. If you want to buy them back, I will
Give you a year but it will cost you 20% more.
Hey Steele. At those prices you are right on par with your offer of BotFW for a CoA. So people were wrong

I offered him a bit more than he was asking but also asked if he was open to sending the Tokens first, and that payment would follow once they were received. I mentioned he could check with others on the forums to verify that I've been a buyer for a while now. No response back. Maybe he already had something locked up though. No offense against anyone but I wouldn't drop that kind of cash to someone who just had a few forum posts. Hopefully things work out for both him and the buyer.

Chad - keep telling the truth, especially after your attempts to communicate. Lately there's been enough instances of shady activity in the so-called 'established' stores on these forums; bad faith, bait & switch and price fixing. Do what you do best -investigate and share to help fight for the most important (and unfortunately forgotten) element of a healthy secondary market - integrity.

Matthew; I understand you may feel it important to stand up for a new forumite. IMHO, the best way to do that may be to provide a positive endorsement. If you find success in obtaining some, please share it.

Chad, it seemed to me you just reported facts and let people draw their own conclusion. Totally fair.

And yes, when someone you never heard of offers five of the hottest tokens for half price, but only if you act "today," it does sound "too good to be true." If he'd started off at $5k I wouldn't be so suspicious.

TD has been a close-knit community for 15 years. Now that it's growing so quickly, it wouldn't surprise me if a con artist or two crept onto the forums. There are already a few scamming newbies at the treasure boxes. Thinking they'll never try to target us in our safe space on the forums is wishful thinking. Why settle for a token you still have to flip when you can go straight for cash?

That said, it could be a totally legit offer. I'm trying to understand why he wouldn't respond to you or Rob. Weird.

No insinuation. It all just strikes me as odd.

Brad Mortensen wrote: Chad, it seemed to me you just reported facts and let people draw their own conclusion. Totally fair.

And yes, when someone you never heard of offers five of the hottest tokens for half price, but only if you act "today," it does sound "too good to be true." If he'd started off at $5k I wouldn't be so suspicious.

TD has been a close-knit community for 15 years. Now that it's growing so quickly, it wouldn't surprise me if a con artist or two crept onto the forums. There are already a few scamming newbies at the treasure boxes. Thinking they'll never try to target us in our safe space on the forums is wishful thinking. Why settle for a token you still have to flip when you can go straight for cash?

That said, it could be a totally legit offer. I'm trying to understand why he wouldn't respond to you or Rob. Weird.

No insinuation. It all just strikes me as odd.

As one possible answer to you Brad, I would say this. If the story is true, and I had a lot else to deal with, like finding a new car, I probably wouldn't spend a lot of time telling people on the forums I already made a deal.
I might post it once in this topic, but even that takes time.

I think everything else you said is valid. I don't blame anyone for having suspicions, or not, as they see fit.

If it seems too good to be true, it often is.

I hope the OP sold his tokens for a fair price, and is able to get to work tomorrow without any trouble. I hope he gets to GC and gets to play again. I hope he introduces himself to those who sent him messages, assuming he can find them. I hope he is able to get his tokens back, if he wants them.
I hope whoever bought them doesn't end up with buyers remorse.

I know people on here have made mistakes shipping things, and I am sure there are people whose "mistakes" were more a matter of hoping they didn't get caught.

Either way, if you are cautious, that is your choice. If you trust at first, that is your choice too.

TJRat wrote: Chad - keep telling the truth, especially after your attempts to communicate. Lately there's been enough instances of shady activity in the so-called 'established' stores on these forums; bad faith, bait & switch and price fixing. Do what you do best -investigate and share to help fight for the most important (and unfortunately forgotten) element of a healthy secondary market - integrity.

Matthew; I understand you may feel it important to stand up for a new forumite. IMHO, the best way to do that may be to provide a positive endorsement. If you find success in obtaining some, please share it.

Shady activity in the established stores on the forums related to bait & switch, price fixing, bad faith? This is the first I've heard of this and am somewhat surprised. Would be interested in hearing details.

Rob F wrote:

TJRat wrote: Chad - keep telling the truth, especially after your attempts to communicate. Lately there's been enough instances of shady activity in the so-called 'established' stores on these forums; bad faith, bait & switch and price fixing. Do what you do best -investigate and share to help fight for the most important (and unfortunately forgotten) element of a healthy secondary market - integrity.

Matthew; I understand you may feel it important to stand up for a new forumite. IMHO, the best way to do that may be to provide a positive endorsement. If you find success in obtaining some, please share it.

Shady activity in the established stores on the forums related to bait & switch, price fixing, bad faith? This is the first I've heard of this and am somewhat surprised. Would be interested in hearing details.

I agree.

If such activity is being visited on the community, let's shed some light on it - that would be helpful.

Saying "shady things are afoot at in the secondary market" without details is harmful - it undermines confidence with no possible way for anyone to rectify it. Undermining confidence in the secondary market harms the value of all of our collections.

lazlo_hollyfeld1985 wrote: Yes it is okay to insinuate
When I asked a simple question and don't get a response. Hell yes I am going to think it is a prince of Egypt scam.
I get scam phone calls daily.
I have been scamed in here. Granted it was for 20$ In 2008. But still. I told people what I asked and still had no response
I don't want someone being taken advantage of.
If a deal is too good to be true....
I would love to have read the Pms the guy got.
I bet people even offered lower than he was asking. Or acted like a pawn shop. If you want to buy them back, I will
Give you a year but it will cost you 20% more.
Hey Steele. At those prices you are right on par with your offer of BotFW for a CoA. So people were wrong

Look - Chad - I respect you a lot. You have contributed enormously to the community with volunteering, financial support, and being a pillar of the secondary market. I take what you say seriously.

I just wish we agreed that there is no reason to call into question someones motives when they are, apparently, suffering through something.

I guess we could find common ground on this: If something seems to good to be true, protect yourself. Buying PayPal goods and services with the ~2.9% uplift is money well spent in this regard in my opionion.

If the seller were saying:

* Cash only
or
* Money order only
or
* Friends and Family payments only
or
* Submit payment to my buddy over here, I don't have a PayPal

I could get behind some public warnings to others.

I don't think not responding to your PMs is, in and of itself, fishy. Especially if they got a better offer (based on my correspondence with them, they did - but I'll leave it up to those parties to discuss the details if they want to).

Brad Mortensen wrote: Chad, it seemed to me you just reported facts and let people draw their own conclusion. Totally fair.

And yes, when someone you never heard of offers five of the hottest tokens for half price, but only if you act "today," it does sound "too good to be true." If he'd started off at $5k I wouldn't be so suspicious.

TD has been a close-knit community for 15 years. Now that it's growing so quickly, it wouldn't surprise me if a con artist or two crept onto the forums. There are already a few scamming newbies at the treasure boxes. Thinking they'll never try to target us in our safe space on the forums is wishful thinking. Why settle for a token you still have to flip when you can go straight for cash?

That said, it could be a totally legit offer. I'm trying to understand why he wouldn't respond to you or Rob. Weird.

No insinuation. It all just strikes me as odd.

I think you make a lot of good points here - but I wonder on the "need it now" price of these tokens. I actually think the guy picked a pretty good number.

I think the: I'm moving this today, dammit! Price on those tokens in that volume is about:

$999 for Charm of Avarice
$199 for 1st Tooth of Cavadar

So - $3,400 for the bunch. They asked $2,700, which is pretty much exactly 20% off of that number.

I agree their prices are 50% of asking prices.

But you'll notice everyone who is asking those prices has those items in stock, and does not seem to be in danger of an immediate sell out