TOPIC: Let's make sure we are always nice to newbies

I think it is possible some people reading this have done things they might now realize they shouldn't. And more importantly we can try to watch for this behavior, especially as volunteers.

For example, when I first started collecting tokens, I showed up to a run with 9 unknowns on Normal with a pretty serious build. It didn't dawn on me back then that it wasn't fun to be too over-powered.

Ro-gan wrote: If most people are like me then letting them know you know the solution already and can give the answer at the last second if necessary is a bad idea. If I'm presented with a complex problem and I know someone will jump in to solve it for me at the last second I find myself not working at it as hard as I could or suddenly not really caring about it. I know my mind thinks better in the closing seconds when time is almost out and the adrenaline has kicked in. If there is no feeling of failure imminent then my brain doesn't work the same. It feels less challenged. That's just me, though. But I'm assuming I'm not the only person that thinks like this.

This is a great observation and would be nice to make a standard instituted across the board. On the few "bad runs" I've had over the last ten years, the worse ones were with those who already solved the room, would act annoyed that you didn't know the answer as you attempted to solve it, and then would try to push me aside halfway through the time allotted.

Personally, I always welcome new players and are careful with the advice and help I offer from equipping to tips on what to do as that first discovery is part of what makes TD so compelling. Thanks to Kirk and Matt for jumping-in on that Facebook thread to try to diffuse the few complainers and help that girl have a positive first TD experience.

It's more of a "if you see something, say something" thing. If a party member is being a !@#% to a newbie, call them out, or make sure that at least you're helpful

I think everyone should be nice to each other.

It is a bit one-sided to say that the problem is simply veterans being mean to newbies.

There are plenty of cases where newbies are mean to each other.

And newbies should also be considerate to veterans as well (remember the Golden Rule!). And there are plenty of people (both veterans and newbies) with an overinflated sense of entitlement.

Newbies (and veterans) should be aware of the rules regarding class selection. All players that are 3rd level+ get first choice (using some random method if they can't agree). I have seen plenty of new players who are adamant and inflexible about class they want to be. And then get upset when a 3rd level player wants to be that same class.

Also, at some level there is a "Catch-22" situation for how veterans are supposed to behave. Some veterans get criticized for helping solve the room. But I have also read newbie complaints about veterans who just stand around and talk to each other instead of helping solve the room!

I agree everyone should be nice to each other. However the difference is a newbie won't cause a veteran player to never play True Dungeon again. Veterans can (and have) caused new players to never play again. Likewise, veterans are generally more interested in the future of True Dungeon than a newbie is. So it is on us to lead by example on being friendly and a team player in the dungeon.

What Kirk just said.
And newbies are highly unlikely to be on this forum. But if they are, I think it's likely they are already into TD enough that a dickweed vet is not going to scare them off.

I have to say that my first game two years ago was not that enjoyable due to an experienced player who came with his newbie girlfriend.

He was greedy, selfish, and an all around turkey... even though they arrived late, he forced his way to have the class he wanted and get his girlfriend the cleric, which my brother already had.

He got upset when his girlfriend "wasted" her healing spell on my brother instead of making sure he survived and since he was the rogue, he played the roll of a selfish rogue always getting the treasure even when we could have used the hint and we all took push damage....

In the coaching room he forced his way to see all out tokens to see if we got a special one he could try to get us to trade for. He even wanted to see our treasure pulls, but luckily that didn't happen.

If it wasn't for the fact I had already paid for a second run later, I may have dropped TD myself... but my second run was the opposite... I went to the orientation class that Raven was involved in presenting players and on the second run even some veterans, were very friendly and the run was wonderful.

It just shows me that a single bad player can really ruin the experience for others... and that helpful veterans can do just the opposite.

I am addicted now and hope to help other newbies have a grea time.

If I am on a puzzle run with new/casual players, I let the DM know that I can give the 'answer' in the last minute if needed, but I try and let the players do all of the work. I agree that an over bearing party member can ruin the experience for everyone else.

jedibcg wrote: Just a quick question. Do we think anyone that has been assish or dickish to newbs is going to read any of this?

Erm... I'm reading this.
And to be honest, I'm finding it educational.

Sometimes I assume that other people like the same things as me (whether that's extra tokens, or a hint on a hard puzzle, or some fun backstab/betrayal in PvP) but not everyone is into that - and seeing a discussion like this helps me recognize some of the other points of view. Or at least to recognize that I should ask before offering unwanted assistance, or going off on a tangent for my own amusement.

And sometimes I'm just really busy and screw something up, and it inadvertently messes up a newbie's experience.

One of my worst memories/regrets about TD is when I was organizing one of my first 5-man runs. One member of our team was a Volunteer, and was coming to the run right after her shift - but her relief wasn't showing up on time, and she ended up being late. She also had her own tickets for the run, so we couldn't turn them in at the desk.

What ended up happening was a cluster-duck: Two brand-newbies from the WaitList were allowed to buy tickets to our run (at the 5-minute mark before we headed into the dungeon) and joined us with their single bag of tokens each. The 4 of us were outfitted for Nightmare... the two of them were not, and were surprised/upset to be in a group with only 4 other players. They did not want to run Nightmare (go figure) and we had bought out the slot specifically to do Nightmare. When they/the Coach suggested they could Veto the Nightmare run, I said I didn't want to do the run - and was on the verge of just quitting the run, which would have left the newbies even more undermanned.

Our final member showed up, with her two tickets, just as we were moving to the Training room,. We ended up sorting something out with the desk, that these 2 newbies could go on the next available run instead of having their first experience be an under-manned run of way over-powered vets... but I think they were still pretty upset by the whole experience. To try to make up for it, we gave them all our unopened 10-packs from the run... but I'm not sure if that helped much. And I didn't stick around to find out, because we were minutes away from entering the dungeon proper.

Now, I make sure I hold onto ALL 10 tickets for those sorts of runs, so that scenario can't happen again.
But it sucks that those 2 players got the shitty end of my "learning experience."

Mongo wrote: I went to the orientation class that Raven was involved in presenting players and on the second run even some veterans, were very friendly and the run was wonderful.

Hey, I'm glad you enjoyed the TD101 Seminar! I haven't been as involved with those recently, but I know the DDA crew who presents them always does a fantastic job!

Oh, and that brings up something I meant to mention in my first post but neglected to, and that is the greed factor. If you have newbies in the group please don't screw them on treasure or tokens. If they find a UR in their 10-pack makes sure they know it is worth "$75-$100". Don't work out sleazy deals when loaning your treasure enhancers. Don't try to scam them of their treasure draws. I know this has all happened.

On the other hand, those of us who have a bunch of CoAs or CoGFs want that synergy bonus, so we are incentivized to loan out treasure tokens. I don't think it is unreasonable to ask for a kickback. I'm thinking something along the lines of "Hey, I have this token that you can virtually borrow if you want. It gives you 13 extra treasure draws on top of your normal three. If you want to give me six of them it would be appreciated but it is totally up to you."

Or is that even going too far?

Kirk Bauer wrote: Oh, and that brings up something I meant to mention in my first post but neglected to, and that is the greed factor. If you have newbies in the group please don't screw them on treasure or tokens. If they find a UR in their 10-pack makes sure they know it is worth "$75-$100". Don't work out sleazy deals when loaning your treasure enhancers. Don't try to scam them of their treasure draws. I know this has all happened.

On the other hand, those of us who have a bunch of CoAs or CoGFs want that synergy bonus, so we are incentivized to loan out treasure tokens. I don't think it is unreasonable to ask for a kickback. I'm thinking something along the lines of "Hey, I have this token that you can virtually borrow if you want. It gives you 13 extra treasure draws on top of your normal three. If you want to give me six of them it would be appreciated but it is totally up to you."

Or is that even going too far?

I agree don't screw the new players because of their lack of knowledge on pricing of tokens. For splitting treasure it is all about the approach - don't pressure them and be fair (split it it with them). If you loan them a CoA and they now get 16 treasure instead of 3 - 8 a piece is an easy split. If anyone isn't interested then take no politely and still treat them with respect and enjoy the game.

Ed

Kirk Bauer wrote: On the other hand, those of us who have a bunch of CoAs or CoGFs want that synergy bonus, so we are incentivized to loan out treasure tokens. I don't think it is unreasonable to ask for a kickback. I'm thinking something along the lines of "Hey, I have this token that you can virtually borrow if you want. It gives you 13 extra treasure draws on top of your normal three. If you want to give me six of them it would be appreciated but it is totally up to you."

Or is that even going too far?

I think it's going too far.

Loan them for free or don't loan them.

There is a word for when you loan something in exchange for value: renting.

Player's first interaction in the dungeon shouldn't be a veteran offering their CoA's for rent at the low low cost of 6 treasure pulls.

Ambassadors of the game don't rent tokens, especially to new players in the coaching room.



If you absolutely must try to eke economic advantage out of strangers who run the dungeon with you (one would think your + treasure pulls from synergy would be enough), about as far as I'd go would be:

"After you do your treasure pulls, I can take a glance and tell you what they are worth, and even trade with you if you're interested."

Players who aren't coming back, or don't want to bother with collecting might just hand over their stuff after you run through: All these uncommons are worth maybe a quarter each, these two rares a buck each, this monster bit is worth around $7.