TOPIC: Let's make sure we are always nice to newbies

I'm hoping that many of the people being complained about here aren't on the forums, but if that's true then us on the forums, and the volunteers, need to keep an eye out for behavior that will turn off new players. I have personally witnessed players ruin puzzles for people who haven't seen them before. I have seen players overwhelm newbies with lent tokens. Or even complex strategies. I have seen players talk over or contradict the coach in the training room when there are newbies present.

Most of these people have good intentions, but please join me as a veteran player and volunteer to watch for and stop this behavior if you see it. Not only will it turn away new players but they might turn away other potential new players. Here are some concerning comments from Facebook .

(to be fair there are also positive comments, as some from here helping out, but I wanted to highlight the negative experiences so we can help avoid them)

I did True Dungeon last year for the first time and I was so excited. In reality, it was awful and it felt entirely newbie unfriendly. We had no idea how to approach anything, and the veterans pretty much took over. I and my partner felt confused, frustrated, and uncomfortable.

I was really interested in True Dungeon too. I talked my husband into going because the rest of my group weren't interested enough to fork out the admission. We go stuck with a group of long-time dungeoners and they wouldn't listen, let us share in helping until they gave up on puzzles and then we solved them.

It is hard for me to understand why anyone tries True Dungeon, considering all the horror stories about it coupled with its price. I mean, I was pretty intrigued by it when it first started, too, but by I think year three I was already hearing about how it was a 50/50 shot that you would end up joining a friendly group who wanted to be sure that everyone felt useful and had a good time...or a group of 8 people who already knew each other and were mad that you were in their group and ignored you the whole time. Not worth the crapshoot at that price when literally everything else at the convention is cheaper and has better odds

Hear hear.

I've made an effort as a GM that if the group has time to kill at the end of the room, I welcome the new players, make sure they're enjoying themselves, give them advice for the rest of the run and/or event. Sometimes even just a few friendly words can make a difference.

Hard to hear this kind of feedback - it seems so antithetical to what most of us see and experience at TD and GC.

bpsymington wrote: Hard to hear this kind of feedback - it seems so antithetical to what most of us see and experience at TD and GC.

Agreed. Admittedly the three experiences I witnessed that affected newbies each only happened once in my 7 yeas of playing, so it isn't like it happens all the time.

Great forum post. Glad you threw this up there Kirk. I think most mid to long time players in the TD community are very accommodating and encouraging to newbies, however pointing out some of the negative experiences they've had provides us all with a nice self check. The way that experienced TD players interact with newbies directly affects the long term health of the game.

This has me thinking back to my behavior on any runs I have ever done with new players.

I hope I have been a good ambassador for the game. I know I haven't ruined any puzzles or anything like that, but I wonder if I've been too loud or not listened enough. I truly hope bot.

Knowing this is out tree definitely helps me focus.

Particularly important to remember with Origins coming up.

I agree with the thought it was good to post and call it out. I would find it surprising if the veterans referred to in the comments are active forum members. We should all be on our best behavior in all groups but especially new players. I have ran a number of new groups with just me and 9 low level players. When I do I make sure to:

• Engage, welcome them, and introduce yourself
• Be courteous, respectful, and a friendly knowledgeable resource
• Let them pick their characters based upon enjoyment (I take what is left)
• Usually I will be in character in the dungeon - think a second NPC to add some flavor
• Pretend you haven't seen the puzzle, participate, and let them solve the puzzle (if they get stuck limited nudges in the right direction without revealing the answer)
• Usually skip the first round of combat, then join in. Try to make sure it is a "fair fight" - don't bring a monster killing character.
• Always thank them for joining on the run
• Lastly, I ask for their feedback on the dungeon and if they had fun.

A number of times I have had groups say this was their 2nd/3rd time they have played TD and they said I made the experience great. I think by not taking charge and letting the group find its own way makes it a much more enjoyable experience.

I am sure I am biased in my recollection and I think that is the point of Kirk's post. Let's constantly evaluate how our actions or lack of actions are coming across to our fellow adventurers.

Ed

Ed those are all great tips! I'll add a few of my own:

• Sort of like you said, if you are playing with a random group of mostly newbies on Normal difficulty, don't bust out your Epic Grind build. Just do something lesser perhaps a sealed pack run. Unless you are a healer then perhaps boost that to help keep them alive.
• It is OK to lend one or two tokens (perhaps a UR weapon or a treasure-enhancer) or give a few cheaper tokens for them to keep, but don't overwhelm them with tokens especially if they aren't on the party card. For example, lending them a Supreme Ring of Elemental Command is going to confuse them more than help them.
• Like really any run, if you show up late to the coaching room, don't try to move classes around and don't try to lend tokens to people who already have their build worked out.
• On puzzles that you have solved before, either participate in a non-thinking fashion, or tell them you have solved it before and you are going to stand back but let you know if they want/need help.
• Friendly reminders here and there for the newbies are probably appreciated; like reminding the Rogue about the box, or a Cleric that they can heal somebody if they want to, etc.

Kirk Bauer wrote: Ed those are all great tips! I'll add a few of my own:

• Sort of like you said, if you are playing with a random group of mostly newbies on Normal difficulty, don't bust out your Epic Grind build. Just do something lesser perhaps a sealed pack run. Unless you are a healer then perhaps boost that to help keep them alive.
• It is OK to lend one or two tokens (perhaps a UR weapon or a treasure-enhancer) or give a few cheaper tokens for them to keep, but don't overwhelm them with tokens especially if they aren't on the party card. For example, lending them a Supreme Ring of Elemental Command is going to confuse them more than help them.
• Like really any run, if you show up late to the coaching room, don't try to move classes around and don't try to lend tokens to people who already have their build worked out.
• On puzzles that you have solved before, either participate in a non-thinking fashion, or tell them you have solved it before and you are going to stand back but let you know if they want/need help.
• Friendly reminders here and there for the newbies are probably appreciated; like reminding the Rogue about the box, or a Cleric that they can heal somebody if they want to, etc.

If most people are like me then letting them know you know the solution already and can give the answer at the last second if necessary is a bad idea. If I'm presented with a complex problem and I know someone will jump in to solve it for me at the last second I find myself not working at it as hard as I could or suddenly not really caring about it. I know my mind thinks better in the closing seconds when time is almost out and the adrenaline has kicked in. If there is no feeling of failure imminent then my brain doesn't work the same. It feels less challenged. That's just me, though. But I'm assuming I'm not the only person that thinks like this.

I do encourage friendly reminders about what certain characters can do that's on the Character Card. Even as an experienced player when the excitement of the Dungeon kicks in I forget to look at my Character Card a lot of times or just forget basic things that I read a few times on the card before starting.

Kirk Bauer wrote: if you show up late to the coaching room, don't try to move classes around and don't try to lend tokens to people who already have their build worked out.

1000× this!!!
I cannot even begin to express how disruptive and obnoxious that is!

Kirk Bauer wrote:

• It is OK to lend one or two tokens (perhaps a UR weapon or a treasure-enhancer) or give a few cheaper tokens for them to keep, but don't overwhelm them with tokens especially if they aren't on the party card. For example, lending them a Supreme Ring of Elemental Command is going to confuse them more than help them.

Agreed!

When I was a Coach, I'd often see experienced players lending tokens to Newbies and overwhelming them. Especially if they dropped an entire pre-made character on a first time player. The new players don't even know how to tell a 1-handed weapon from a 2-handed weapon, and all of a sudden they've got 20 or more tokens which they have to remember the conditional effects for.... it's too much. Better for them to get 1-3 good tokens (ie: Weapon, Armor, Belt of Ogre Power) which all go directly onto the Party Card, and then let them spend their time reading their Class powers /abilities / spells.

Better yet if you tell them they can keep the tokens when the run is over

Ro-gan wrote: If most people are like me then letting them know you know the solution already and can give the answer at the last second if necessary is a bad idea. If I'm presented with a complex problem and I know someone will jump in to solve it for me at the last second I find myself not working at it as hard as I could or suddenly not really caring about it. I know my mind thinks better in the closing seconds when time is almost out and the adrenaline has kicked in. If there is no feeling of failure imminent then my brain doesn't work the same. It feels less challenged. That's just me, though. But I'm assuming I'm not the only person that thinks like this.

Huh. Okay - that makes sense.

When I run with Newbies, I'm usually up front about the fact that I've solved things before... so I hang back. But you're right, not everyone deals as well with that. Perhaps it's better to say, "I've run before and I know some of the solutions" but not to tell them which puzzles you know - even if it's ALL of them - so they don't feel put on the spot, or let off the hook.

Just a quick question. Do we think anyone that has been assish or dickish to newbs is going to read any of this?

If you know me you know I can be an ass (not to newbs) and I am not reading so I was just curious.