TOPIC: Nightmare Difficulty Level Thought

I was thinking, one of the problems with Nightmare Level is the wide range of token builds of people wanting to play it. It's hard to really aim it at Best in Slot token builds, because that would make it too hard for the lesser token builds that people want to bring in. Which kind of defeats the purpose of Nightmare Level, because I thought it was aimed initially at token builds that are on the very upper end. to challenge Best In Slot players.

I wonder of part of the problem is the fact that anyone playing Nightmare Level gets an extra Completion Token. I wonder if that is pulling a bunch of people in that would normally be playing Hardcore Difficulty Level, if the rewards for the two levels were identical.

I'm sure this suggestion won't be adopted, but I'd recommend that Hardcore, Nightmare, and (if it is introduced) Epic Difficulty Levels have identical rewards. That way, the only incentive for people to play a higher level is because they want the challenge. Perhaps that would enable True Dungeon to refocus Nightmare Level at the very high-end Token Builds, giving a true challenge to the players that have close to Best In Slot Builds.

I can tell you my group plays Nightmare for the challenge. It gets boring being able to basically walk through a dungeon and not have to worry about dieing.

Joshua Long wrote: I can tell you my group plays Nightmare for the challenge. It gets boring being able to basically walk through a dungeon and not have to worry about dieing.

Do you have fairly top of the line token builds?

This is my party's build.

Based on my experience from True Horde my party is nowhere close to top of the line.

Joshua Long wrote: This is my party's build.

Based on my experience from True Horde my party is nowhere close to top of the line.

So, if they did really scale Nightmare to top of the line builds, your group might not be competitive in it? Maybe that is an argument for Epic difficulty, if Hardcore is too easy for you, but difficulty for Best In Slot tokens would be too difficult.

It does seem to me to be a healthy thing for True Dungeon to have a top difficulty level that would provide a challenge for the most token-heavy groups.

Mike Steele wrote:

Joshua Long wrote: This is my party's build.

Based on my experience from True Horde my party is nowhere close to top of the line.

So, if they did really scale Nightmare to top of the line builds, your group might not be competitive in it? Maybe that is an argument for Epic difficulty, if Hardcore is too easy for you, but difficulty for Best In Slot tokens would be too difficult.

It does seem to me to be a healthy thing for True Dungeon to have a top difficulty level that would provide a challenge for the most token-heavy groups.

If nightmare were scaled to anything close to True Horde my party would wipe for sure.

I do agree that having a difficulty that would challenges BiS builds would ensure healthy token purchases from some in the TD community.

I play Nightmare because it's the highest challenge and it gives me a reason to exercise my build skills and tokens.


Hardcore is too easy at the gearing level of my party. It's not fun - combats end in the 1st or second round and you end up spending 30 minutes of TD standing around in the combat room.


Changing the rewards for NM/HC/Normal would not change our difficulty selection at all.

I play Nightmare because it's the highest challenge level, currently.

I play 5-man Nightmare because I really enjoy the smaller party, and we are still able to complete the dungeon (most of the time) on this challenge level.

If there were an Epic level, I'd probably play it once for each version f the Dungeon to see if I could do it, but mostly stick to Nightmare DoubleDown runs because I really, really enjoy that particular flavour of TD.

I don't play any particular version because of the rewards, but I'll admit that if Nightmare got *only* the Rare completion token, I'd feel the need to buy random tickets at Normal level, just to get the UC completion token. So I like Nightmare having both UC & Rare Completions.


I will note this (and have done so previously): If Epic difficulty is given any special token reward over HC and Nightmare, there will be folks who play it just to get that reward, even if they and/or their party are under-equipped for it. That's a recipe for .. maybe not disaster... but certainly a few angry and/or unsatisfactory experiences.

I would like the completion tokens to stay the same, but I am biased. I am often over equipped for Hardcore while usually borderline to well equipped for Nightmare. I like being able to get both tokens while being challenged and I don't have to try and run another difficulty to get the other completion token. If Jeff decides to adopt an Epic difficulty, I would suggest either no extra token or maybe +1 Treasure.

Token purchases help provide a great TD experience, but when the discussions turn to ensuring better sales, we end up with more TEs or over powered tokens. If people need more of a challenge, rein in your build? Or assess penalties to your party, like reduced healing or capping certain stats?

balthasar wrote: If people need more of a challenge, rein in your build? Or assess penalties to your party, like reduced healing or
capping certain stats?

Advice to rein in your build amount to advice to buy less tokens.

Similarly with capping stats.

Basically players want TD to create a challenge for them.

If players have to create the challenge themselves the answer is simple: sealed runs only, and no token purchases.

If there is no difficulty that provides challenge to a BiS build, there is less incentive to own a BiS build. Less incentive to own a BiS build is less incentive to buy tokens.

I don't think TD should be organizing it's difficulty levels in ways that disincentiveize token purchases.

Matthew Hayward wrote:

balthasar wrote: If people need more of a challenge, rein in your build? Or assess penalties to your party, like reduced healing or
capping certain stats?

Advice to rein in your build amount to advice to buy less tokens.

Similarly with capping stats.

Basically players want TD to create a challenge for them.

If players have to create the challenge themselves the answer is simple: sealed runs only, and no token purchases.

If there is no difficulty that provides challenge to a BiS build, there is less incentive to own a BiS build. Less incentive to own a BiS build is less incentive to buy tokens.

I don't think TD should be organizing it's difficulty levels in ways that disincentiveize token purchases.

Or we turn the 7 token challenge into a 6 or 5 token challenge.

Can we make a difficulty between Hardcore and Nightmare while we are at it? People are already creating their own challenges limiting the rarities and number of tokens they use. If you add that Epic level, what happens when there are multiple groups that want to run at the same time and there aren't enough extra DMs? It is probably easier for players to challenge themselves versus asking for new challenges from Jeff every few years as the builds get stronger.


You can challenge yourself creatively, or the easy way of sealed runs, I don't care. We are a community of clever gamers, so challenging ourselves would seem to be an attractive idea.