TOPIC: What to do with a full run? (moved)

patrick dodge wrote: I must say this "run ownership"/ secondary market for tickets if ridiculous. This will be my last TD event because casuals are clearly being excluded by the ticket snatching, market-cornering, over-purchasers. This is at least the 3rd time I've seen this forum where someone has bought "an entire run" then has to "figure out" what to do with the extra/unused tickets.

While all pass it off as "my friends backed out," I'm quite sure the majority of the stories are "just buy them all and figure out what to do with them."

This'll be my 4th GenCon, but it's the first time I've seen the tix randsomed like this... very unfortunate.

Here's a thought, if you can't use the tix, release them for others who are constantly checking the GenCon site in the hops that the over-purchasers will cancel.

Hello Patrick,
It can be frustrating to not be able to get what you want, there are a few things you may not have considered. I hope you'll change your mind.

* At this point (after may 19th) tickets can only be returned on site - this is because GenCon prints and ships them starting around then.

* Tickets returned to GenCon are subject to a 5% processing fee - for a full run of TD this amounts to $25 - better to sell them directly to someone that take the loss.

* People buy out full runs because they want to be able to go on them with their friends, pick their difficulty level, and pick their preferred class.

* No one resells tickets at above face value

* No one _intentionally_ buys runs they don't plan on using - instead they buy runs because they sell out within a few hours of registration opening, and then things change (friends decide not to go, their volunteer schedule changes, they get invited to a brother-in-law's wedding that week, etc.)

I also thing you are likely way overestimating the impact of these practices, there are 825 True Dungeon events this year. If you look at the unofficial GenCon group forming index here:

truedungeon.com/forum?view=topic&catid=591&id=243056&limitstart=0

There are around 100 events listed - most of which are not people holding entire runs, they are people looking for the rest of their group that they got some tickets for.

So - it looks like 90% or more of all runs available are not being bought out and then filled on the forums.

* I haven't heard of a single person or group who wasn't able to get into a run they wanted if they:
A. Were there when event registration went live
B. Are flexible as to what times they are available

In this way True Dungeon is one of the most accessible events at GenCon: show up at event reg with a flexible plan, get your runs. The same can't be said for many other games.


Finally, some constructive advice, here is how to get your TD tickets:

1. You, and all your friends pick the dungeon / times you want.
2. You all select to buy the correct number of tickets for your entire party.
3. You all process wishlists at event registration time.
4. You all get on the phone and figure out who got what, drop the extras, and check out.

If you do that, and you each plug in 4+ dungeon times (all using the same times), I doubt you'll ever not get the right number of tickets in at least one run.

Thank you all for your kind posts. I do not think Patrick's or anyone else's posts are out-of-line. Patrick is obviously shy (3 posts in 4 years), so I think he actually believed he thought he was making a valid point... though not factual in this case. I will probably accept Harlax's offer to run with his son's group. I make no promises to return his son or his son's friends in the state they entered the run. While I believe my friend's son to be a simple innocent giant, I make no promises about my friend. His many years working in maintenance has degraded him to the simplest of humor. So Harlax, prepare yourself for the worst of 4th grade humor for years to come.

Meh, prepare to run with a bunch of college sophomores. There's a reason the term sophomoric was coined...

If it works out, I'll have 8 BHM Puzzle spots to unload.

I haven't bought a TD ticket through Gen Con outside of Grind, in 5 years. I always get to go on runs because I do my best to be a team player and forge some great friendships here on the forums. I have never paid more than face value for a ticket, either. If you want to do some runs, coordinate with your friends before tickets go on sale or just start posting that you are looking for a group here on the forums. This is the best gaming community I have found on the internet

I know it can be frustrating when you don't get something you want, and you see someone else with more of that thing than they know what to do with. I'm sure that is frustrating no matter what that thing is.

I will echo what many others have said, that I don't think anyone on the forums (or anywhere as far as I know) is buying more runs than they need intentionally for any reason, especially to scalp or ransom them.

There are a lot of reasons people buy full runs, even if they don't have enough people to fill those runs. They want some control over what people are in the run, they want to have control over what difficulty level the run is, and I'm sure there are many other reasons. There are certainly also instances where you think you've got all the spots on the run filled and people back out (that's happened to me as well).

This is a great community, and I think if you and your friends really wanted to do a run and were flexible on time/difficulty level/etc, I think it's very likely that someone on the forums will have a spot for you.

And of course, people on the forums don't have any advantage on getting the dungeon runs, everyone has the same chance once that countdown clock hits zero. I always count myself very lucky when I manage to get tickets, and there are times I'm not successful at first and have to work at it for awhile, and/or settle for fewer tickets than I'd hoped for.

Harlax wrote: Meh, prepare to run with a bunch of college sophomores. There's a reason the term sophomoric was coined..

It's from the Greek: sophos meaning "wise", and moros meaning"foolish or dull."

Brad Mortensen wrote:

Harlax wrote: Meh, prepare to run with a bunch of college sophomores. There's a reason the term sophomoric was coined..

It's from the Greek: sophos meaning "wise", and moros meaning"foolish or dull."

When I read that, it was in the voice of the Dad from Big Fat Greek Wedding.

Mike Steele wrote:

Brad Mortensen wrote:

Harlax wrote: Meh, prepare to run with a bunch of college sophomores. There's a reason the term sophomoric was coined..

It's from the Greek: sophos meaning "wise", and moros meaning"foolish or dull."

When I read that, it was in the voice of the Dad from Big Fat Greek Wedding.

That's what I was going for

So if it offends anyone, just spray some Windex on it.

patrick dodge wrote: I must say this "run ownership"/ secondary market for tickets if ridiculous. This will be my last TD event because casuals are clearly being excluded by the ticket snatching, market-cornering, over-purchasers. This is at least the 3rd time I've seen this forum where someone has bought "an entire run" then has to "figure out" what to do with the extra/unused tickets.

While all pass it off as "my friends backed out," I'm quite sure the majority of the stories are "just buy them all and figure out what to do with them."

This'll be my 4th GenCon, but it's the first time I've seen the tix randsomed like this... very unfortunate.

Here's a thought, if you can't use the tix, release them for others who are constantly checking the GenCon site in the hops that the over-purchasers will cancel.

I will say that I empathize with him quite a bit and honestly, a few years ago I felt very similar. I've been playing since 2005, but only in the last few years have I started poking around on the forums.

Since the time I started, there were maybe 2 years where I didn't run TD. It wasn't because I didn't want to, it was because I was unable to scoop up a ticket from the GenCon site - they sell out quickly. It never occurred to me that I should go to the TD website and ask around on the forums - and why would it? You buy GenCon event tickets from the GenCon event ticket website, right? How would someone know otherwise?

A few years back, poking around in the story scape area, I encountered an empty Transmute room. I looked at the items you could transmute and the items needed. I had none of the items on the list and was a bit upset that someone who had been playing the game for as long as I have would never had accumulated any of those tokens in that time frame. Granted, there was a lot I didn't know about the token game outside of the dungeon crawls.

Over the years, I noticed people getting some fantastic gear, going on "Nightmare Levels" etc. I honestly had no idea what they were doing that I wasn't. I learned that people were going on all 4 runs - or doing the same run more than once. I was furious about this - but again, I didn't understand at the time. Mindset was that there were 2 dungeons - do each dungeon once... if you like combat, do combat. If you like puzzles, do puzzle. Or, do puzzle of one and combat of the other. Doing 4 runs was ridiculous! - but now I understand.

Admittedly, I do still struggle with the concept of solo runs. To me, it still feels like you're taking away a chance for 9 other people to play... but I get it.

I had wanted to "get more serious" about TD for a few years, but it wasn't until 2014 when I got a 00 pack with a transmutable UR inside did I really start looking into things and got a good push to poke around on the TD website.

I had always purchased a few extra token packs at the con right before the dungeon, but I didn't know (or managed to ignore) that you could purchase token bundles online from TD. (if you haven't figured it out by now, I've been living under a rock).

Last year, I was again in the situation where I was having an issue buying tickets from the GC website, and I figured it was a long shot, but I'd ask the forum people if anyone just happened.. maybe.. to have an extra ticket for the dungeon I couldn't manage to get from the GC event page. (Yes. someone did!) Also, as a side note, not all gaming forums are as active as this one and as we've heard from newcomers, a lot of other forums are home to jerks and trolls - not everyone is confident enough to jump into a new forum.

After GenCon 2015 there were discussions on what to do about veterans ruining runs with newbies/casual players. When someone suggested buying up a slot of tickets to do a newbie run, I was a bit disheartened.

Casual players and Newbies don't come to the forums looking to buy tickets. These people try to buy their tickets from the GenCon event website.

I wish there was a way from the GenCon event website, to let people know if they were unable to buy a ticket there, come to the forums and ask around - we won't bite.

Angela, I feel the same way you do about solo runs. I understand why people want to do them, and more power to them, but for me the main draw of True Dungeon is the shared experience with 9 friends.

No one is saying you have to come to TD to buy tickets. When tickets go on sale those on the forums have the same chance of getting tickets as everyone else. Someone can spend more time hunting down tickets like I had to do this year to get all the runs I want from the Gen Con site. I spent hours attempting to get my tickets. But that is the nature of the Gen Con ticketing site. And it doesn't take an army. I alone have been buying my groups tickets since 2010. I have always been able to get the tickets we want (except I am missing a single ticket out of 40 this year) because I plan ahead and prioritize TD tickets. I know not everyone can do that but they shouldn't fault those that can because as screwy as the Gen Con ticketing system is it is screwy against everyone equally (except maybe VIG).

I have no sympathy for someone that doesn't plan ahead and work to get True Dungeon tickets through the site. Some 8000 tickets were made available to everyone. Because someone either didn't spend the time or didn't decide to buy tickets until after the first day again has nothing to do with people coordinating on the TD forums after the fact.

I understand the casual TD player doesn't know about the forums. I think that is what makes them a casual TD player. If you are hardcore into this game then you are going to do everything you can to learn more about it. If you attempt to do so, you will quickly find the website and the forums. And anyone spends any amount of time here you will find most of us (not counting myself and hwenry) very friendly and helpful.

Anyways that is my two cents. I hope everyone has fun on their runs.

Buying up runs makes perfect sense to forumites - "I spent thousands on my nightmare Cleric build, so I don't want that wasted by having to play a wizard on normal."

We used to have dedicated Nightmare slots, and that didn't work. New players would buy tickets not knowing, and then the run had to turn into normal, or else half the party would be dead in room 1.

Maybe the opposite would work. If a few runs per day were designated Normal runs, and the option to buy all ten tickets at once were turned down to two just for those runs, then maybe that would help solve everyone's concerns.

Keep in mind, True Dungeon started in 2003, but only for a week at a time. You could make the case that, as a business, the event has only been around for about four months, not 14 years.

Yes, I know there are countless hours of prep work and forum chatting and whatnot. I'm not minimizing that. But as far as interactions with casual players are concerned, experience accumulates rather slowly, especially since the staff has 51 weeks to forget everything they learned at Gen Con that year.
(WYC and GameHole are helping that a lot.)

We think of TD as being a very mature game, but it's not. It's much better than it has a right to be.

There are things that still could use improvement, but the awesome thing it's done is that it created a nation, of sorts. (It's a good thing we have benevolent royalty.) That sense of community is what makes it great. But it can also be intimidating and off-putting for those who are not yet citizens of TrueDonia.