TOPIC: Returning from Push Death

Also, Druegar's Death Die comes to mind as having about the same effect as the Savior Stone. But, if you're getting killed by push damage, are you really going to take the time to roll a die before leaving the room? (Logistically, not good, and do puzzle rooms even have dice available for Druegar's Death Die roll?)

Edit: Druegar's only applies to combat death, so that answers one of my questions.

So, then, related clarification: I'm guessing that if you are killed by push damage at the end of an unfinished combat, that doesn't count as dying in combat (because "push" damage is neither "puzzle" nor "combat" regardless of what dealt it?)

Theoretically I guess. No one has ever asked or explained what the mechanics of the death die are. Savior was specifically said to be time travel based, which gives a lot of advantages. As far as I know, death's die just brings you back to life so if you were sucked into the void or sphere of annihilationed...you'd still be dead since you'd have no body to bring back.

henwy wrote: Yes. That was actually a ruling that a savior stone can make you a 'survivor' as long as the condition is anyone who lives survives. Sometimes the way the win condition is defined makes that impossible. LIke correctly solve puzzle = win woudln't help you. But survive final blast of damage = win would. I forgot who asked the question but we debated for a while when a completion token/survivor button would actually be worth blowing a savior stone.

On a related note, it hasn't always been clear (especially in combat dungeons) if you "survived" by still being alive at the end or if you actually had to defeat the final monster to be a survivor. If you last through the combat, and survive any push damage, are you counted as a survivor, even if the monster remains undefeated? Does that vary from dungeon to dungeon?

As far as I know it's changed from dungeon to dungeon. In the early days there were a couple just live to win sort of setups. In the more recent days it's often a requirement you beat the big bad to have it count as a win. Puzzle has changed and been even more variable.

BTW, no one has answered my original question. If you DO die from push damage is it a permanent death?

I don't know the legal answer, but pragmatically, if you didn't have time to rez, then the DM didn't have time to write you died, either. So if I'm a DM and you walk up to me and hand me a PoDD and say you died from push damage in the previous room, I'm unlikely to pronounce you irretrievably dead. It feels pedantic.

Unless one of the PTB tell me otherwise.

My logic would be you died as you entered the next room via push damage. Therefore you can rez in the next room because the push damage isn't complete until you enter the next room.

And I have never had a DM tell us that a person could not use a PoDD in the next room, ever.

cdsmith wrote: My logic would be you died as you entered the next room via push damage. Therefore you can rez in the next room because the push damage isn't complete until you enter the next room.

And I have never had a DM tell us that a person could not use a PoDD in the next room, ever.

Had a DM dice roll to determine res ability this year for this exact situation. Roll went in our favor and the res was done but there are DMs who would disallow it for some reason

cdsmith wrote: My logic would be you died as you entered the next room via push damage. Therefore you can rez in the next room because the push damage isn't complete until you enter the next room.

And I have never had a DM tell us that a person could not use a PoDD in the next room, ever.

I had it happen this year to me

My unfounded opinion - the intent of the "rez where died" rule is to keep people from dying in room 2, then tagging along through the dungeon invulnerable until a later room, like Disney's Frozen head, to be brought back when it is most convenient. (Like after the lava room or the 2013 planks-in-the-pond puzzles.)

I don't think it's about setting up a Catch-22 making push damage deaths permanent.

But that's just me.

I was always told push death is permanent. I forgot which one of the bigwigs said it but you cannot drag bodies with you so if you want to use a potion or mushroom, you need to do it while you still have access to the corpse.

Brad Mortensen wrote: My unfounded opinion - the intent of the "rez where died" rule is to keep people from dying in room 2, then tagging along through the dungeon invulnerable until a later room, like Disney's Frozen head, to be brought back when it is most convenient. (Like after the lava room or the 2013 planks-in-the-pond puzzles.)

I don't think it's about setting up a Catch-22 making push damage deaths permanent.

But that's just me.

Very valid reasons there, and it does sound like that should be the intent. But, we did encounter some permanent push deaths this year.

I'm actually okay either way, since there are ways around it (Cricket Figurine and Savior Stone, e.g.), but I'd like to see an official ruling on the matter. Then we'll know what to expect, and can hopefully have it implemented consistently.