TOPIC: End the Combat and Puzzle Variations in 2014?

I have a few projects that I'm thinking about which includes Circle Center. I465 should be 5-6 lanes around the entirety of the loop. I69 should be extended to the Southwest. Construction and Planning on the outer loop (Ronald Reagan Expressway?) is all but defunct. The lack of a west side inner loop and the stupidity that is the "dogleg". Sewer system expansion that is designed for last year's volume which won't be complete until 2018. The list goes on... but I digress. LOL Sorry for that. Back to the original topic of the thread..

Dougout wrote: I cannot be mad at anyone for all the growth that has been happening and the lack of support of that growth. Being a local, I know that fault lies mostly with the Convention Center and possibly the local government as well. Indianapolis generally has a project development scheme that goes something like this...

1. Identify that expansion is required based on what happened yesterday.
2. Plan Today for expansion that was required yesterday.
3. Underestimate or ignore how much expansion is required for tomorrow.
4. Take a long time to finish expansion so that tomorrow becomes a new yesterday.
5. Start process again.

To some degree all corporations and governments are like this because of short-sighted people who only care about what happens while they are in office, and of course budget concerns, but Indiana has been particularly bad about it over the years.

I truly hope all will come out well for all of us.

That's not very fair to the City of Indianapolis. They built the Hoosier Dome without a major sports franchise to play in it, which is why they are the Indianapolis Colts and not Phoenix Colts. Mayors Lugar and Hudnut built it, and they came.

I worked downtown for 7 years and saw everything from the deflation of the Hoosier Dome to the erection (heh) of the J.W. Marriott. A lot of people said we didn't need to build Lucas Oil Stadium to keep the Colts, and they might have been right. However, we did need more convention space to keep the that were about to outgrow the convention center (like GenCon, the Future Farmers of America, etc.). The conventions crammed into nearby hotel convention space and GenCon started evaluating the performance of the GMs, which I believe improved the quality of events being run.

Building Lucas Oil and demolishing the Hoosier Dome made room to more than DOUBLE the convention center space. The new stadium and the promise of the J.W. won us a Super Bowl. The J.W. was also instrumental in attracting mid-sized conventions because it provides more hotel rooms and a second major ballroom. We help justify building the J.W. by sleeping and showering (some of us) in the rooms and playing in its convention space. It's all connected, and it takes baby steps to build because investors need to see a return before they take the next step.

This year, the exhibition hall and hotel rooms sold out in record time, and not by a small margin over last year. GenCon was shocked, and they weren't ready for it. Interest is rising exponentially, and therefore investment will rise to meet it as investors see more opportunity. The city is vying for another Super Bowl, and I'm 99% sure the proposal will include building another large hotel since the lack of rooms was a critique of the last SB. This means more hotel rooms and convention space for us. If you build it, they will come, but sometimes you have to build it a little bit at a time.

Harlax wrote: GenCon is locked into Indy through 2020, so no worries about moving. I am concerned about the implications of continuing growth in attendance.

Yes, things are moving so fast that I'm worried too.

2011 felt fine and comfortable. 2012 GenCon started to feel a bit tight. Then, parts of 2013 were downright uncomfortable. I'm a bit apprehensive about what this year may bring...I can't imagine what 2020 would be like!

Jeff Martin wrote:

Picc wrote: Jeff, without saying anything before your ready can you tell us if we should be at all worried or concerned? ie is the impending news positive/negative/nuteral from a TD perspective.

I can't say more until early next week. I tend to be an optimist and view most change as an opportunity to make things better. I will stick with that feeling with this one.

Where did we end up on this?

valetutto wrote:

Jeff Martin wrote:

Picc wrote: Jeff, without saying anything before your ready can you tell us if we should be at all worried or concerned? ie is the impending news positive/negative/nuteral from a TD perspective.

I can't say more until early next week. I tend to be an optimist and view most change as an opportunity to make things better. I will stick with that feeling with this one.

Where did we end up on this?

Yes, I've been curious about this as well.

Phaelix wrote: Last year was my first time playing TD, and I realize I'm pretty late to this discussion but I still wanted to offer up an idea.

It's fair to say that some people prefer combat, and some prefer puzzles. In the runs I did last year there would always be at least a couple people who were trying to "stay out of the way". For puzzles sometimes 10 sets of hands make it harder, and for combat there are too many sliders on the board. In each room there was always someone who felt left out, or that they weren't really helping.

I could see one room in each dungeon being a puzzle/combat hybrid that allows for personal choice. For example, you enter a room with a trapped demon and an incomplete banishment ritual. You could either outright kill the demon by sliding pucks, or complete the ritual puzzle to banish it. The group could split between the combat and puzzle to accomplish the goal of getting past the demon. If you prefer sliding, step up and hit the demon. If you prefer puzzle, head over and start working on the ritual. Each aspect of the challenge could also help the other almost like the rogue/chest clue mechanic. Solving a single rune in the ritual could weaken the demon (HP damage, stunned for one round, removes fire immunity, etc.) While combat could produce clues for the puzzle as if the demon were a pinata (at 75/50/25% health it lets out a clue, or drops a useful tool). The challenge could be defeated by 100% combat, 100% puzzle, or a combination of the two.

This way each player could participate on the aspect of TD they prefer and still feel that they contributed to the victory. The challenge of this approach would be the need for additional DM training/expertise or perhaps having two DMs assigned to the room.

I like this idea!!

Mike Steele wrote: I know the Chip tokens are superior in almost every way, but I do miss the woodies

I miss the woodies because they were way lighter to carry on my person.

Dougout wrote: I will wait for the official announcement before I start pulling my hair out and freaking, but if TD and/or GenCon were to leave Indy, I would be sad. I enjoy being part of the build team and working with everyone during the con and playing with all the cool people. Since I'm a local it's nice to not have to spend a lot on travel expenses to attend.

I cannot be mad at anyone for all the growth that has been happening and the lack of support of that growth. Being a local, I know that fault lies mostly with the Convention Center and possibly the local government as well. Indianapolis generally has a project development scheme that goes something like this...

1. Identify that expansion is required based on what happened yesterday.
2. Plan Today for expansion that was required yesterday.
3. Underestimate or ignore how much expansion is required for tomorrow.
4. Take a long time to finish expansion so that tomorrow becomes a new yesterday.
5. Start process again.

To some degree all corporations and governments are like this because of short-sighted people who only care about what happens while they are in office, and of course budget concerns, but Indiana has been particularly bad about it over the years.

I truly hope all will come out well for all of us.

I'm going to disagree with this. Simply because a couple years ago I happened to be in the right place at the right time while at GenCon and started talking with a couple people who were "big wigs" with GenCon LLC. They were telling me the tale of how Indy came to GC and wined and dined them and convinced them to move from "Gary's Home" to Indy.

I don't think GC or Indy could have foreseen the exponential increase every year in GenCon attendance rates. Indy even expanded the Con Center recently to help with this. I really don't think it's fair blaming Indy for this. Unless they started tearing down hotels, parking garages and/or Lucas Oil Stadium how can they possibly make the Con Center any bigger?

I think hotel capacity is more the issue than Convention Center space. As others have pointed out, there is meeting space in Lucas Oil Stadium that has not been tapped. I don't think all the Union Station space has been tapped.

Harlax wrote: I think hotel capacity is more the issue than Convention Center space. As others have pointed out, there is meeting space in Lucas Oil Stadium that has not been tapped. I don't think all the Union Station space has been tapped.

The content is gated for subscribers only, but here is an article from the Indiana Business Journal about the hotel situation in Downtown Indy: www.ibj.com/kite-floats-two-tower-pan-am-plaza-project/PARAMS/article/46397

Basically, Kite Realty Group proposed to turn the Pan Am site (the corner where all the food trucks were) into a 2 tower, 20 story, 700+ room hotel. It mentions a skybridge and would include around 30,000 square feet of convention space (the size of the ballroom on the second story of the convention center).

For people (like me) concerned about demand, after the J.W. Marriott added 1,005 rooms, the hotel occupancy rate continued to climb from 68.5% in 2012 to 70.3% in 2013. My favorite quote: "Clearly, the city has shown the ability to generate new demand to match new supply, and then some," Eble said. "They've absorbed the JW without any indigestion."

I believe the speed of the redevelopment hinges on if Indy getting picked for the 2018 Super Bowl. We're one of three cities being considered, and people think we have a good chance of getting it again.

Kim Lindgren wrote:

valetutto wrote:

Jeff Martin wrote:

Picc wrote: Jeff, without saying anything before your ready can you tell us if we should be at all worried or concerned? ie is the impending news positive/negative/nuteral from a TD perspective.

I can't say more until early next week. I tend to be an optimist and view most change as an opportunity to make things better. I will stick with that feeling with this one.

Where did we end up on this?

Yes, I've been curious about this as well.

aye, it has me concerned and curious. Any update Jeff?

Ro-gan wrote:

Mike Steele wrote: I know the Chip tokens are superior in almost every way, but I do miss the woodies

I miss the woodies because they were way lighter to carry on my person.

I TOTALLY agree! Whenever possible I use wooden tokens to make the binder lighter. But, in two full binders of tokens for all 10 characters, I'm down to just two wooden tokens. A Dragonscale Shield for me (Druid) and a Gloves of Dexterity for the Rogue.