TOPIC: Token Guide 2009 (8.0) Feedback

I am sure you guys will find things, when you do, post them here.<br /><br />Dave

Hi Dave,<br /><br />The new Token Guide looks GREAT!  Thanks for all the hard work!!  Also - wow, that is a lot of different tokens!  It's great that there are so many different choices of tokens for the various slots.  <br /><br />Here are a few thoughts on the new guide:<br /><br />1)  On Page 6, It says Ektdar's Tinkering Tool can only be used once per dungeon.  One Page 63 it says ETT can be used once per disarm attempt.  I think Page 6 is incorrect.  <br /><br />2)  Page 8 says that the misprints are tokens printed on older token backs.  It also works for newer token backs.  I think all the misprints of a token printed on a different print run back are 2005a tokens with 2005b token backs, and 2006 tokens with 2005b token backs.  <br /><br />3)  Minor Typo, on Page 38 for Hat of Escape, "Chose" should be "Choose".  <br /><br />4)  On Page 41, under Necklace of the Oak, it says that the +1 to hit and damage is dependent on the character class.  Won't +2 to Strength always give you +1 to hit and damage, regardless of the character class?  It's the odd numbered strength increases that vary effect based on character class (i.e. Barbarian).  <br /><br />5)  The requirement that the Coronet of the Arch Druid be worn in the entire room is new I think, and makes the item MUCH less useful.  The rules say the person has to say they are putting it on at the start of the room - but for many (most?) combats, you don't know at the start of the room that there will even be a combat in that room.  The monsters often don't reveal themselves until later in the room.  Can this be changed to say that once you put on the Circlet of the Arch Druid, you can't take it off for the rest of the room?  Or just drop that requirement completely?  You're already limited to how often you use this item since you have to sacrifice two second level spells to activate it, that seems to be enough of a restriction without also adding in the "wear in the entire room" restriction.  I was pretty sure in the forums Jeff had said that you could switch your headgear for the Coronet in a room with no loss of a turn.  <br /><br />6)  On Page 52, it says that for the new Divine Detect Poison scroll, only Druids & Clerics can use it.  Couldn't Bards read it also?  <br /><br />7)  On Page 55, for Anti-Toxin, it says that only one can be used, and if you fail the second time the poison takes effect.  You can still use another token/spell, like Slow Poison, to stop the poison from taking effect, right?  Maybe just delete the last sentence.  <br /><br />8)  On Page 56, maybe delete "and will need further healing".  For instance, if you're in the final room, and get resurrected after the monster is killed, there probably isn't any need to heal beyond 1 HP.  (I know, VERY minor comment  =)).  <br /><br />9)  I notice that some consumable tokens say something along the lines of "this token must be turned in", but others don't.  Maybe it should be consistent one way or the other, or people might think the ones that don't say that the token must be turned in, don't have to be turned in.  <br /><br />10)  Typo "ahs" on Oil of Smiting, page 59.  <br /><br />11)  Page 59, Barkskin, should "Tuff" be "Tough"?<br /><br />12)  Page 61, Goblet of Healing.  If you just pour one Fairy Water token into the Goblet, do you still get 1 point healed?  Also, delete "is" before Goblet.  <br /><br />13)  Page 60, masterwork bard's instrument - spacing is wrong on one, "on e" instead of "one ".  <br /><br />14)  Page 61, Ring of Three Wishes.  It states that there are only four - it seems in recent forum threads that at least five have been identified.  Very minor point, of course.  <br /><br />15)  It might be neat if the other "survivor" tokens had the same sort of notation as the Ring of the Eye, identifying where it was obtained.  <br /><br />16)  I really like how you list the ingredients for the Combo Tokens, even the ones from past years.  =)<br /><br />17)  Page 90 - I thought The Rod of Seven Parts Segment 1 gave +1 to HP, not +2.  Also - nice to see the Segment #2 photo  =)<br /><br />18)  Page 90 - Four Arcane Recipe Tokens were made available in 2009 - one in the special Charity auction.  <br /><br />Again, Great job on the Token Guide, Dave - it looks GREAT!!<br /><br />Thanks,<br />Mike<br /><br /><br /><br />

On page 67, both of the Autumn and Winter Runestones are listed as 'Sonic' damage. Winter should be 'Cold', I believe.

Awesome job on the new guide Dave!  =D<br /><br />A few things I noticed:<br /><br />1. The Pugio and +1 Pugio are listed on the swords page (15). Aren't they considered daggers?<br /><br />2. In most cases it looks like when a chippy version of a token exists, it is shown instead of the woodie. There are at least a few places where this is not the case.<br />      Page 30: Dragonscale Shield<br />      Page 40: Hand of glory<br />      Page 46 & 49: Scroll: Melf's Acid Arrow (There are also two separate text blocks)<br />      Page 68 & 71: Ring of Feather Fall (There are also two separate text blocks)<br /><br />3. On page 29 the guide reads mentions that a +1 amulet of armor, +1 bracers of defense, and a +1 ring of protection may be worn. There are now more options (Torc of Natural Armor, Celestial Bracers, etc.) Can this passage be made more generic?<br /><br />4. Page 62 the description for Ioun Stone: Violet Prism does not state that only 5 Ioun Stones may be used.<br /><br />5. Page 73 The Fey Wand doesn't have it's charges marked off. (minor consistency point, I'm not sure if this really matters)<br /><br />

Grab the rotten produce, this rates at least a 9.3 on the AR Scale.<br /><br />I think it would be nice if the photo & descriptions for Gem of Healing and Faceted Amber Ioun Stones swapped places. This would put all the ioun stones on the same page.<br /><br />Obviously this is not a big deal, just a minor aesthetic suggestion.

Page 61. The description for the Lyre of Rage states the bonus is "to damage", while the token itself declares it a bonus "to hit" <br /><br />I believe the correct description should be a total of +2 to hit and +1 damage.<br /><br />I would assume the bonus to hit affects both melee and missile weapons?

Page 3:<br />    2009 TRUE DUNGEON (INDY) should be demoted.  It is part of the Common Ingredient Items section<br /><br />Page 4:<br />    Not so much a book correction but an aside.  Having the token say All, but have it be only selected classes is bound to confuse players.  Perhaps it would be better (since changing the tokens themselves is impossible) but allow the remaining classes to use them, even though they may normally not have the intelligence or magical ability to do so, strictly speaking.<br /><br />Page 5:<br />    In the list of one-time use items, Elixirs is misspelled as Eixers<br />    In the list of one-time use items, Faerie Water is misspelled as Farie Water<br />    Necklace of Fireballs is listed twice, once by itself and once in the list of charge box items<br />    Also, the list can be confusing.  You indicate one-time use, but then include things with charge boxes.  Maybe indicate limited use in the first paragraph, but add that unless there are charge boxes, they are automatically single use items.<br /><br />Page 6:<br />    Add Ioun stones in the list of item types that can have charge boxes.  <br />    I believe the Feedback Loop token is an exception to the "collect when used up" rule, particularly if signed.<br />    Extra-planer should be spelled extraplanar or extra-planar<br /><br />Page 15:<br />    I agree with the earlier comment about the pugio and +1 pugio.  They are Roman daggers.<br /><br />Page 16:<br />    This is probably true with all the tables for weapons...  perhaps a different symbol should be used for notes about the weapon itself versus particular class usage of a weapon (there are two different things with a single asterisk in this table).  Also, could we fix the alphabetical order of the classes for easier use?<br />    Sickle, Silver in the table indicates that druids and monks can't use it, but the token itself only excludes clerics and wizards.  This may be an error on the token.<br />    In * note, extra-planer should be extra-planar.<br /><br />Page 19:<br />    The non-plus Orcish Flail, the Orcish Scourge and the Orcish Club are all mysteriously missing from the guide.<br /><br />Page 21:<br />      In the details, Gearon is misspelled Geron<br /><br />Page 24:<br />      Unlisted exception to the "no strength bonus on ranged" ...  +1 Mighty Long Bow<br />      For consistency,  "+2" should be added in front of the Flaming Short Bow description<br /><br />Page 28:<br />    Sling Bullet of Impact and Thunder detail entry is repeated<br /><br />Page 32:<br />      Unlike most other details for tokens, the armor stuff is compressed into one small paragraph.  Perhaps for consistency and ease of reading, the normal separation should be employed.<br /><br />Page 34:<br />      Another use of extra-planer that should be extra-planar (may want to do a replace all in case I've missed any occurances)<br /><br />Page 37:<br />        Dragonhide Cloak claims to be a reward for volunteers at True Realm 2009, but that was actually the Dragonhide Boots.  Is this perhaps the reward token for True Dungeon 2009?<br /><br />Page 38:<br />      Boots of the Underdark.... warn should be worn.  Does this work like Boots of Elvenkind with regards to first round sneak attack, or is it technically round 2 that the attack completes with the +2 to hit?<br />      Wondrous Cloak of Displacement....  Second to last sentence in the description needs to be fixed to "This item only works"  (there is an extra "is")<br /><br />Page 44:<br />      Scrolls:  See page 4 about "All"<br /><br />Page 45:<br />      Light..... are players still given a special light for this scroll, or is this defunct.<br /><br />Page 47:<br />      Mage Hand...... weight should be weigh<br /><br />Page 48:<br />      Flame Arrow.....awkward wording in the last sentence.  Using however implies that what follows has different rules or effects than what preceded.  In this case, neither bonus apply.<br /><br />Page 50:<br />      Detect Undead - I believe the second Detect Undead should have been Detect Life<br /><br />Page 52:<br />      Detect Poison - can also be used by Bard<br /><br />Page 53:<br />      Darkvision - is this still valid?  Or is the effect discontinued?<br /><br />Page 54:<br />      Owl's Wisdom - instead of correct focus item, wouldn't this be correct leaf identified?<br />      Cure Light Wounds - listed twice with different hp curing values.<br /><br />Page 55:<br />      Anti-toxin - "takes affect" should be "takes effect"<br /><br />Page 59:<br />      Polymorph (Otter) -  "af" should be "of" and "study" should be "sturdy"<br />      Oil of Smiting - "ahs" should be "has"<br />      Barkskin - add a comma after "Just like the scroll" to make it easier to read<br />      Polymorph Bear - Bear should be in parentheses<br /><br />Page 61:<br />      Lyre of Rage - increases to hit, not damage by 1 additional.  The token does not indicate the enhancement is limited to melee.<br /><br />Page 63:<br />      Gem of Blinding - "affect" should be "effect"<br /><br />Page 64:<br />      Widseth's Mystical Lute - the token itself doesn't limit itself to melee, should it?  I thought bardsong was a morale lifter that would affect ranged or melee equally.  It might also help to put the different bardic instruments together on the same page for easier comparison purposes.<br /><br />Page 67:<br />      Runestones - I was told as a coach to only accept one runestone per person per run.  This description seems to contradict that.  Which is correct?<br /><br />Page 68/71:<br />      Ring of Feather Fall - listed twice on different pages - once with the original wood look, the other with the newer look<br /><br />Page 80:<br />      Orchorn Shortbow - "just to tell the barbarian" should probably be "just don't tell the barbarian"<br /><br />Page 92:<br />      First sentence should either end in a colon or period.<br />      Segment 1 is only 1 hp (image must be an earlier proof)<br /><br />Page 93:<br />      The comment about bardsong seems to support my early comments about pages 61 and 64.  Ranged should be included.<br /><br />Page 94:<br />      Question 8 - probably should add a note about Widseth's which gives you the ability to use your hands (wearing shields and wielding weapons) as if not performing.<br /><br />Didn't study the final charts in detail (could only check the last 2 years anyway).<br /><br />Thanks again for all the effort you put into the token guide each year.  Considering the amount of information in it, these few corrections are quite minimal.

That was a DM note I made for myself re: bard instruments to keep them straight:<br /><br />regular: +1 to hit, +1 dam<br />masterwork: +1, +2<br />Lyre of Rage: +2, +1<br />Widseth's: +1, +2, able to attack - however, cannot cast spells or scrolls or use wands (are there wands a bard can use?)<br /><br />Not sure I remember about ranged attacks - I know bardsong does not apply to spells<br />

According to the token guide, bards can use two wands:<br /><br />Detect Magic<br />Cure Light Wounds<br /><br />Both are woodies from 2003 to 2005.  Never seen either except in the token guides themselves, but they do exist.

<br />2)  Page 8 says that the misprints are tokens printed on older token backs.  It also works for newer token backs.  I think all the misprints of a token printed on a different print run back are 2005a tokens with 2005b token backs, and 2006 tokens with 2005b token backs.  <br />

<br /><br />Ok, logistically this is the only way it could happen.<br /><br />1. It is possible for 2005b token images to be on 2005a backs, there were some left over and got mixed in with the second printing.<br /><br />2. 2005a images should not be on 2005b backs, there were no 2005b back available when the 2005a screens were being used, so I would have to actually see one of those before I believe it.<br /><br />3. It is possible for 2006 images to be printed on 2005b or even 2005a backs as again there could have been some mixed in during the printing process.<br /><br />4. I am doubtful there are 2005b images on 2006 backs since again there were not 2006 token backs when the 2005b screens were being used.<br /><br />I suppose it is possible that the printer accidentially used the wrong (older) screen, but highly unlikely.  I would have to see the physical evidence to proove it.  The case of older token backs 2005a and 2005b backs having newer images is highly likely and I have seen examples.  That is easily explainable in that there were always some single sided tokens left over from year to year waiting for someone to grab the wrong bag to send to the printer.<br /><br />Dave<br /><br />

<br />

<br />2)  Page 8 says that the misprints are tokens printed on older token backs.  It also works for newer token backs.  I think all the misprints of a token printed on a different print run back are 2005a tokens with 2005b token backs, and 2006 tokens with 2005b token backs.  <br />

<br /><br />Ok, logistically this is the only way it could happen.<br /><br />1. It is possible for 2005b token images to be on 2005a backs, there were some left over and got mixed in with the second printing.<br /><br />2. 2005a images should not be on 2005b backs, there were no 2005b back available when the 2005a screens were being used, so I would have to actually see one of those before I believe it.<br /><br />3. It is possible for 2006 images to be printed on 2005b or even 2005a backs as again there could have been some mixed in during the printing process.<br /><br />4. I am doubtful there are 2005b images on 2006 backs since again there were not 2006 token backs when the 2005b screens were being used.<br /><br />I suppose it is possible that the printer accidentially used the wrong (older) screen, but highly unlikely.  I would have to see the physical evidence to proove it.  The case of older token backs 2005a and 2005b backs having newer images is highly likely and I have seen examples.  That is easily explainable in that there were always some single sided tokens left over from year to year waiting for someone to grab the wrong bag to send to the printer.<br /><br />Dave<br /><br /><br />

<br /><br />Dave,<br /><br />I have several examples of 2006 token fronts with 2005b token backs, and I also have several examples of 2005a token fronts with 2005b token backs.  I think Gary has some also - actually, he just traded for a Scroll of Detect Magic (2005a front) with a 2005b back.  In fact, I think I picked up a couple of new ones recently that I haven't heard mentioned before.  I can give you a list of the ones I have - and I could send you pictures of front & back.  I could probably do a little video clip showing the token fronts and me flipping them over for the backs.  Failing that, I'd be happy to bring a few with me to GENCON next year  =)<br /><br />Now - I can't explain HOW 2005a fronts got printed with 2005b backs - but it's VERY cool!  =D<br /><br />Thanks!<br />Mike

<br />12)  Page 61, Goblet of Healing.  If you just pour one Fairy Water token into the Goblet, do you still get 1 point healed?  Also, delete "is" before Goblet.   Nope, must be two<br /><br />14)  Page 61, Ring of Three Wishes.  It states that there are only four - it seems in recent forum threads that at least five have been identified.  Very minor point, of course.   Who has the 5th?  As far as I know it was Jenn, Lance, Warren, and Jeff had one.  I heard one was turned in (used up) at the con this year...<br /><br />15)  It might be neat if the other "survivor" tokens had the same sort of notation as the Ring of the Eye, identifying where it was obtained.  I can work on this, but no promises...<br /><br />17)  Page 90 - I thought The Rod of Seven Parts Segment 1 gave +1 to HP, not +2.  Also - nice to see the Segment #2 photo   =)  I will check with Jeff, this may be a case of him sending me the wrong image, again.<br /><br />18)  Page 90 - Four Arcane Recipe Tokens were made available in 2009 - one in the special Charity auction.  <br />$#&#** Jeff and his dealing...<br /><br />