TOPIC: About Power Creep . . .

Dang and here I thought I had an original idea. It would solve any power creep issues though. It would also add another dynamic, how much equipement do we want to bring? Less could be better than more in some situations then. It would level the field between newbies anf the pros. Mixed parties could still be a problem though.<br /><br />

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<br />Heres a crazy idea. What if each party was given a effective party level based on its level of equipment (number of purples, average AC, etc.) and player levels. And in the dungeon the encounters are scaled based on the party level. So a monster might have higher hit points, AC and to hit if the party level is say level 3 vs. level 1. It would be pretty easy to come up with a formula to set the partys effective level in the prep room. It could be written on the party card and the DM's could have a set of stats for each monster based on party level.<br /><br />Either that or a rust monster would take care of that power creep in a flash.<br />

<br /><br />That idea has been suggested in one form or another in the past...not sure what the final thoughts were of it.<br /><br />I think keeping things simple with 2 or at most 3 game difficulty settings, is what Jeff sees as best for now.<br />

I think 2 or 3 levels of difficulty will work for a good while to come, until the disparities defined by levels are more extreme. At some point, complaints by veterans that standard difficulty is too easy and laments by new players that they died right away in nightmare mode could lead to some kind of warning in the setup room or by the trainers.

Or, (as another suggestion to make it easier to figure on the Admin side of the game) why not give out XP based on what you take into the dungeon.  High AC gives out the normal amount of XP.  Go in with a lower than normal AC (as a party) and get 25 to 50 more XP per room.  You control, you decide, you chose.  That way every group gets out of TD what they want, just like the commando run.  What makes the game fun for you: guaranteed survival or a level of difficulty that tests your skills with sliders and puzzles?  You can purp out to the max or just take a loincloth, but if your choice can possibly give you a greater reward....  In the end, isn't this level of freedom and choice the reason for all the tokens in the first place, to play with the odds of survival as you can/see fit?

<br />I think 2 or 3 levels of difficulty will work for a good while to come, until the disparities defined by levels are more extreme. At some point, complaints by veterans that standard difficulty is too easy and laments by new players that they died right away in nightmare mode could lead to some kind of warning in the setup room or by the trainers. <br />

<br /><br />If we take "Normal", "Hardcore", and "Nightmare" as our three levels of difficulty... would the DM be able to scale between the three ok? I didn't notice any problems with DMs scaling between Normal and Nightmare at all. Maybe some day we can have two diff dungeons going at a time... one designed to be introductory and the other for experienced players (and still have each of those at two levels of difficulty).<br />

<br />I think this would take a lot of the fun out of TD for anyone except perhaps the brand new players. And even then, a new player may go into the dungeon expecting to rely on their more experienced friends - the ones that now would have restrictions.....  Pass thanks.<br />

<br /><br />I think it would pose a challenge myself... what two or three purps do I take... how to deal with the upper limit on rares in total? I don't have enough purps to have that problem (yet), but for some folks they might find that to be a challenge (deciding what to bring in).<br />

I was thinking 4 levels. Normal (those with just a few tokens - free bags), Medium (those with enough reds to make good AC's, +1 weapons, etc.). Strong (lots of reds, some purples, lots of expendables) and Nightmare. But 3 could work too. But maybe Strong = Nightmare.

[soapbox rant]<br />I don't know, I read this topic  as 'punish those with tokens'.  <br /><br />Tokens do not help solve puzzles (except where props are required), tokens do not make you slide better, or think better.  What they do is make it when you mess up, or that your sliders suck, or you fail to solve that puzzle, more survivable.  And in the worst case the tokens can help you survive even the greatest threat, death.  <br /><br />When you can only get one or two tickets to an event that occurs only once a year, would you rather be over-prepared so when you go through you can enjoy the event all the way through, or under-prepared where even the first room can spell your doom (Axe meets Monk).  <br /><br />Those who have the most in the way of tokens put alot of money into the coffers of True Dungeon.  Some do it because they like collecting Shiney objects, others do it give them and their friends an edge so that the Dungeon can be survivable.  If the players want more a of a challenge, as been said already, let them put their own handicaps on. <br /><br />If they want to go in on 'easy mode' then let them, the puzzles will be just as hard as for them as well as the group going through on just the gear they pulled at the start.  Putting artifical caps on those who have had the blessing having resources to buy their way to near invulnerability penalizes some of the strongest supporters of TD, when it comes to finances.  <br /><br />I see this as something TD does not need to police, but rather a player choice.  The designers of the game have already implemented Nightmare Mode as a way to provide those who have reached 'Power Creep' caps a challenge.  Since this was our first year with nightmare and no-where have I read 'Nightmare was too easy' by even those who had complained last year about Hardcore, leads me to believe that Nightmare was just right for those who have all the Purples they could want (for now).<br /><br />I can see that if the arguement is now Nightmare is too hard for those midway through the Token acquisition process (lots of rares, but few, if any, URs) then I see that as motivation to those that are pure Red to start looking at aquiring a purple a year.<br /><br />Again, I don't see it as TD's responsibility to put caps on the players to make it more of a challenge, instead if the top end groups start complaining TD:Nightmare is too easy, then its time to see if TD:Nightmare might become TD:Hell On Earth.  Let the token rich have their fun, but do not penalize them and their purchasing decisions.<br /><br />[/soapbox rant]

I think that the dungeon should also be height adjusted. I figure we can have have three different levels based on the average height of the gamers involved. We can call it Tall, Grande, and Vente.

<br />I think that the dungeon should also be height adjusted. I figure we can have have three different levels based on the average height of the gamers involved. We can call it Tall, Grande, and Vente.<br />

  Uh, I think you mean venti.  =D

<br />Heres a crazy idea. What if each party was given a effective party level based on its level of equipment (number of purples, average AC, etc.) and player levels. And in the dungeon the encounters are scaled based on the party level. So a monster might have higher hit points, AC and to hit if the party level is say level 3 vs. level 1. It would be pretty easy to come up with a formula to set the partys effective level in the prep room. It could be written on the party card and the DM's could have a set of stats for each monster based on party level (similar to normal vs nightmare).<br /><br />Either that or a rust monster would take care of that power creep in a flash.<br />

And that would add yet one more thing that would have to be taken care of in the marshalling area or in the training room.

<br />If they want to go in on 'easy mode' then let them, the puzzles will be just as hard as for them as well as the group going through on just the gear they pulled at the start.  Putting artifical caps on those who have had the blessing having resources to buy their way to near invulnerability penalizes some of the strongest supporters of TD, when it comes to finances.  <br />

<br /><br />I chose just this paragraph because it sums up what others have responded... you are not alone in your opinion. I threw out the "deck construction" type limitation as a possibile way to address the "power creep" issue posed in the initial response. Since then, I have stated I am an advocate of letting players chose their own limitations... my post was definately not intended to "pick on" those with tokens (which I will be some day as I grow my collection!) or undermining True Dungeon's ability to generate revenue. (And believe me I am grateful some folks have helped TD continue to grow with their purchases.)<br /> <br />

How feasible would it be to instill a tiered XP system?  What I'm imaginint is as the years go on that there be more options available for what type of a run you want to do, such as Normal, Hardcore, Nightmare, Armageddon, The Abyss, Hades, etc.  Each subsequent level would have tougher and tougher monsters (with improved AC and improved Hit Points) and each subsequent level would earn you more XP (but at a much lower incremental scale as is currently in place with Normal and Nightmare).  Unfortunately it wouldn't be feasible to have buttons available for all of these but it would give some people the opportunity to challenge themselves even further.