TOPIC: Coming Soon: Safehold Super Condensed

One thought to this program is it will be available to everyone though forum auctions. Since you come out ahead TG wise with a safehold condensed, it should be pretty popular as a forum auction.

I really like this idea, I think it will move a lot of 8k orders. I do think it should stop at safehold III since 1 and 2 are where it should ramp up drastically. I would put a lot of thought into which one to order for myself. I have not done the math to see how this evens out with trade goods yet though. It does seem odd that you get full gold out of it though, I would have thought you would get reduced gold amounts.

Endgame wrote: One thought to this program is it will be available to everyone though forum auctions. Since you come out ahead TG wise with a safehold condensed, it should be pretty popular as a forum auction.

True. I still don't like it. You should have to earn a Safehold (play TD to get bits for Fleece, and go through the wait period). Not just make a payment to TD. Sure you can buy Fleece from someone. Fine. But having a Fleece requirement of the Safehold is to me a core principle meant to encourage people to play. And per the Safehold document "In the world of True Dungeon, creating a Safehold takes some time. Even with the arcane magics used to hasten the building process, a certain amount of time must pass to create a Safehold"

Didn't TPTB add Fleece into every recipe because there is a glut of them out there so much that TD ran out of them earlier this year? But I guess its OK if we skip the Fleece sink if you spend money. Got it. Thanks.

Reap wrote: A normal transmute path would be: Safehold V (Under Construction) --> Safehold V --> Safehold IV (Under Construction) --> Safehold IV --> Safehold III (Under Construction) --> Safehold III

If you did this, you'd end up with: 5 Hireling Steward, 5x Underling Steward, 5x Follower Steward. And of course the Safehold III.

But with this "Safehold Super Condensed" option, you get an extra Safehold V and Safehold IV? I am confused by that. Is that just to make the trade good math work?


I am for saving steps in transmuting, but I personally would rather end up with:
2x Safehold III
10x Hireling Stewards
10x Underling Stewards
10x Follower Stewards

And that way the Safehold vs Steward ratios would be correct too.

This is where my head is currently at. You normally need to turn in the Safehold V to get Safehold IV Under Construction and turn in Safehold IV to get Safehold III Under Construction. In effect, this proposal is like you transmuted for 3 Safehold Vs, 2 Safehold IVs and 1 Safehold III. Depending upon the value of the trade goods, I'm coming up with this option being a better value by anywhere from $600 to $800. A lot of that comes because it eliminates the need for 13 Golden Fleece and 23K in gold, because you still get 44K in gold, even though you would have had to spend 23K in gold to get the aforementioned number of Safeholds.

One potential solution to the timing issue identified by many in this thread would be to hold off on shipping the Safehold IV and Safehold III tokens to Safehold condensed pack purchasers until those tokens become available to transmute. Or at least confirm that the Underlings/Followers cannot be made until the dates those recipes open to all. (So purchasers would get their Safeholds and Stewards “early,” but not be able to make or equip the Underlings/Followers until the appointed times.)

I’d also like to echo the concern that the rewards seem off, because one normally has to turn in the Safehold V to get the Safehold IV UC, etc. Reap’s suggestion to make the reward 2x Safehold III with 10 of each Steward type makes more sense to me. (With whatever changes to the TGs and GP would be needed to make the math work.)

That said, I already made the number of Safehold V UC that I plan to make. I would have to do a lot of math to figure out if I’d be better off trying to get pre-made Safeholds or a regular super-condensed package.

I admit that I haven’t been following all this too closely, but I am extremely confused by the whole safehold program!

If whatever Druegar is talking about is part of $8K orders I won’t need to worry about it until my lottery numbers start paying off!

Dave wrote:

Reap wrote: A normal transmute path would be: Safehold V (Under Construction) --> Safehold V --> Safehold IV (Under Construction) --> Safehold IV --> Safehold III (Under Construction) --> Safehold III

If you did this, you'd end up with: 5 Hireling Steward, 5x Underling Steward, 5x Follower Steward. And of course the Safehold III.

But with this "Safehold Super Condensed" option, you get an extra Safehold V and Safehold IV? I am confused by that. Is that just to make the trade good math work?


I am for saving steps in transmuting, but I personally would rather end up with:
2x Safehold III
10x Hireling Stewards
10x Underling Stewards
10x Follower Stewards

And that way the Safehold vs Steward ratios would be correct too.

This is where my head is currently at. You normally need to turn in the Safehold V to get Safehold IV Under Construction and turn in Safehold IV to get Safehold III Under Construction. In effect, this proposal is like you transmuted for 3 Safehold Vs, 2 Safehold IVs and 1 Safehold III. Depending upon the value of the trade goods, I'm coming up with this option being a better value by anywhere from $600 to $800. A lot of that comes because it eliminates the need for 13 Golden Fleece and 23K in gold, because you still get 44K in gold, even though you would have had to spend 23K in gold to get the aforementioned number of Safeholds.

I'm guessing Fleece will hit at least $50 soon so could be closer to a 1K better value.

I have to admit my first opinion on this is a bit negative. I haven't done the math so I'm not talking about value. It just feels a bit "off" from the purpose. I think of Safeholds as something you earn over the years, not just buy. Obviously, you can just buy them on the secondary market, but it feels "wrong" to buy them directly from TD.

As far as I know, True Dungeon has never sold any tokens directly -- only via 10-packs and bundles. (exception: sometimes auctioning tokens for gold in the past). But because it sounds like there is effectively a discount (especially with Fleece) then this feels a bit too much like sending TD money for the safeholds. In other words, it isn't strictly a time-saver and shipping-saver.

This suggestion is unfair to all those who are already proceeding down the path to transmuting Safeholds. For example, since I've started the process, the Safehold Super Condensed option doesn't work for me. The whole concept was that the Safeholds would take time (and effort) to create.

Also, as pointed out by others, this Super Condensed option bypasses the need to use Golden Fleece tokens so effectively makes Safehold tokens created the ordinary way more difficult.

In addition, this allows those taking advantage of the Super Condensed option to create Hirelings, Underlings, and Followers as soon as the date hits, whereas everyone else will need to first create the corresponding Safehold token first, wait for it to come back, and then send the Hirelings, Underlings, and Followers for a second transmute. So those who already started the process are disadvantaged compared to those who start fresh next year.

In short, this option is unfair to those who already began the process, used Golden Fleece in the recipes, and would be constantly behind in the transmuting process.

I understand the efficiencies on both the player and TD side of things to offering this (although contrary to the time and effort nature of Safeholds that has been previously represented), and had it been created before last year's Patron orders would have been fine other than that. But to have had people start down the path and then to offer this in the middle of the process is unfair. TD should encourage those who supported the Safehold program from the beginning rather than rewarding those who didn't.

One other problem with this proposal. It appears doing the Safehold program this way allows someone to keep the earlier Safeholds (you get a V, IV, and III). Doing it the regular way requires the use of the V to make the IV (under construction), and the use of the IV to make the III (under construction).

All of this really leaves a bad taste as someone who spent a lot of time (and Fleece) to make the Safehold Vs already.

edited first post to add the following:

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As with all 8K purchases, you'll still get:

• 44,000 GP
• The same number of random URs
• All the same Onyx options
• Adventures' Guild exclusive tokens (e.g., Mark of the Nth Tenet)
• Premium tokens (e.g., Ring of the Nth Circle)
• Adventures' Guild badges
• Paragon token [e.g., Path to Enlightenment (Fragment X)]
• Wish Ring
• Patron Pin
• The standard chance of pulling a Golden Ticket
• Any other Patron-exclusive tokens/goodies that come with an 8K purchase

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and revised the Safehold tokens you get to:

• 5× Hireling Stewards
• 5× Underling Stewards
• 1× Safehold III
  
• 5× Follower Stewards