TOPIC: Druids Can Use Crown of Elemental Mastery?

Arcanist Kolixela wrote:

Incognito wrote:

Mike Steele wrote: In both cases, it seems like the goal is to make tokens accessible by as many classes as makes sense. It makes sense that Wizards would have access to a polymorph shirt, and it also makes sense that a Druid would have access to Elemental control.

In that case, I propose that the Coronet of the Arch-Druid be errata'ed to allow Wizards to be able to use it.

And that the Staves of Focus be errata'ed to add polymorph damage.

I'm sure there will be at least one Druid (formerly Wizard) who will agree with me!

How about you Mike? Would you be in favor of those two proposed changes (Coronet & Staves of Focus)?

I definitely agree on the Wizard's staff. I see no reason the legendary BATON of focus has bonus polymorph damage and the legendary STAFF of focus does not when both classes access polymorph.

As for the Coronet, if a circlet version or something is printed I would expect the Wizard to be added to the token just like the Druid was added to the CoEM.

Would you also expect the Druid to be added to the five gazillion unique tokens the Wizard has? Maybe the Mad Evoker's Charm? I'd gladly let the Wizard be added to all the Druid unique tokens if the Druid could be added to all the Wizard unique tokens.

Mike Steele wrote:

Arcanist Kolixela wrote:

Incognito wrote:

Mike Steele wrote: In both cases, it seems like the goal is to make tokens accessible by as many classes as makes sense. It makes sense that Wizards would have access to a polymorph shirt, and it also makes sense that a Druid would have access to Elemental control.

In that case, I propose that the Coronet of the Arch-Druid be errata'ed to allow Wizards to be able to use it.

And that the Staves of Focus be errata'ed to add polymorph damage.

I'm sure there will be at least one Druid (formerly Wizard) who will agree with me!

How about you Mike? Would you be in favor of those two proposed changes (Coronet & Staves of Focus)?

I definitely agree on the Wizard's staff. I see no reason the legendary BATON of focus has bonus polymorph damage and the legendary STAFF of focus does not when both classes access polymorph.

As for the Coronet, if a circlet version or something is printed I would expect the Wizard to be added to the token just like the Druid was added to the CoEM.

Would you also expect the Druid to be added to the five gazillion unique tokens the Wizard has? Maybe the Mad Evoker's Charm? I'd gladly let the Wizard be added to all the Druid unique tokens if the Druid could be added to all the Wizard unique tokens.

Classes ranked by the number of tokens they may use, excluding those usable by all:

Fighters 474
Paladin 466
Bard 421
Barbarian 419
Cleric 335
Ranger 302
Druid 295
Wizard 203
Rogue 200
Monk 112

So... Druids have access to 45% more tokens than Wizards do.

Looking only at tokens which Wizards may use, and Druids may not, and vice versa:

Restricting our attention to URs:

URs usable by Wizards but not Druids:

+2 Staff of Focus
+2 Staff of Power
Circlet of Elemental Mastery (however Druids have equivalent token in Crown of Elemental Mastery)
Cloak of the Mage
Figurine of Power: Dragon
Mad Evoker's Charm
Ring of Wizardry
Robe of the Arch Mage
Scroll Fly (! a 2005 consumable!)

URs usable by Druids but not Wizards:

+2 Baton of Focus
+2 Keen Scimitar
+2 Long Spear of Dragonslaying
Bowl of Spirit Sight
Coronet of the Arch Druid
Dragonhide Armor
Dragonscale Armor
Dragonscale Helmet
Dragonscale Shield
Druid's Wild Vestments (however Wizards have access to the superior Shirt of the Fae)
Figurine of Power: Owl
Lenses of Divine Sight
Redoubt Mail
Shield of the Scholar
Troll Hide Armor
Twolf's Helm of the Wild

Looking at Transmuted tokens:

Transmuted Tokens usable by Wizards but not Druids:

+3 Staff of Focus
Drake's +5 Staff of Focus

Transmuted Tokens usable by Druids but not Wizards:

+1 Keen Hand Axe
+3 Baton of Focus
Blessed Redoubt Mail
Drue's +5 Baton of Focus
Masterwork Spear
Scythe of Reaping
Sill's Anointed Redoubt Mail
Wicked Spear


Let's review:

Druids have access to more tokens than Wizards - check!
Druids have access to more URs than Wizards - check!
Druids have access to more transmutes than Wizards - check!
Druids get the full Eldritch bonus from 2 pieces instead of 3 - check!


Remind me again how Wizards have better token support than Druids?

That's not quite what I was saying, as there are more Wizard-only tokens than Druid-only tokens, but it's good data, Matthew.

On a side note, since the crown is technically better than the circlet because more classes can use it, it kind of meets the criteria some tokens have to be transmutable/swappable. I'm not sure I'd swap my Wizard's circlets for the crown though even if I could.

How many of that 45% more are weapons or armor, two things to which a Druid has more access?

Those were interesting numbers, although I'd think we should limit it to URs since most of us don't equip a lot of rares and lowers.

What's confusing about these numbers is that there are two arcane classes, both named "wizard." In that sense, there are no "wizard-only" tokens.

But there are two distinct divine casters: cleric and Druid.

(Ignoring the half-caster Paladin and Ranger)

I don't know what that's supposed to tell you, other than it's very easy to get into apples vs oranges.

Also, I'm not sure what the take-away of this discussion is supposed to me, other than that the 2018 set should be nothing but monk-only tokens to help them catch up.

Brad Mortensen wrote: Also, I'm not sure what the take-away of this discussion is supposed to me, other than that the 2018 set should be nothing but monk-only tokens to help them catch up.

Those poor beggars don't need tokens.

jedibcg wrote:

Brad Mortensen wrote: Also, I'm not sure what the take-away of this discussion is supposed to me, other than that the 2018 set should be nothing but monk-only tokens to help them catch up.

Those poor beggars don't need tokens.

Exactly!

Plus, I suspect us oft-forgotten Fighters (and Dwarf Fighters) are the ones with the fewest class-specific tokens.

Brad Mortensen wrote: What's confusing about these numbers is that there are two arcane classes, both named "wizard." In that sense, there are no "wizard-only" tokens.

But there are two distinct divine casters: cleric and Druid.

(Ignoring the half-caster Paladin and Ranger)

I don't know what that's supposed to tell you, other than it's very easy to get into apples vs oranges.

Also, I'm not sure what the take-away of this discussion is supposed to me, other than that the 2018 set should be nothing but monk-only tokens to help them catch up.

It's an issue of semantics.

Originally there was just one Fighter and one Wizard, but a second of each was created when we went from 8 players to 10 players.

Since both Fighters can use the exact same set of tokens and the Wizards can use the exact same set of tokens, they really are the same class. (unlike Clerics vs Druid). It's easier to think of them as sub-classes - they have different abilities but the same base class, just as the case of Prestige classes.

Otherwise, under your logic, there are no "cleric-only" tokens since there are two classes both named "Cleric" (one is the Templar).

So there are "really" four Arcane classes: Elf Wizard, Wizard, Illusionist, Sorcerer.
And four Divine classes: Cleric, Druid, Templar, Summoner

Fiddy wrote:

jedibcg wrote:

Brad Mortensen wrote: Also, I'm not sure what the take-away of this discussion is supposed to me, other than that the 2018 set should be nothing but monk-only tokens to help them catch up.

Those poor beggars don't need tokens.

Exactly!

Plus, I suspect us oft-forgotten Fighters (and Dwarf Fighters) are the ones with the fewest class-specific tokens.

Oh, I thought it was because the Plate Armor of Attack was sooooooo overpowered!

Incognito wrote:

Fiddy wrote:

jedibcg wrote:

Brad Mortensen wrote: Also, I'm not sure what the take-away of this discussion is supposed to me, other than that the 2018 set should be nothing but monk-only tokens to help them catch up.

Those poor beggars don't need tokens.

Exactly!

Plus, I suspect us oft-forgotten Fighters (and Dwarf Fighters) are the ones with the fewest class-specific tokens.

Oh, I thought it was because the Plate Armor of Attack was sooooooo overpowered!

Both of our Fighters are still using the Plate Armor of Attack.