TOPIC: Focus weapon clairification

Matt wrote: Can a condensed and referable copy of the ruling(s) be posted to coaches/DMs?

I'll try to incorporate it into the DMG & Coach's Guide and cover it during coach training. Please remind me if I forget.

Matt wrote:

GaryM wrote: I'm pretty sure I'm more confused now then i was before reading this thread. Reasons to love being a barbarian.

When this insanity/inanity concludes (whenever it may be and hopefully more than just a week before con). Can a condensed and referable copy of the ruling(s) be posted to coaches/DMs?. I've admit i've been both amused and confused at times reading this thread. Just figuring at some point its going to get referenced this year in the coaching/training rooms regarding changes/wording clarifications.

Let me see if I can condense it for you.
Folks feel free to correct me if I get it wrong.

TD now uses focus weapons.
A focus weapon allows you to cast a spell and still hold the weapon.
If you want to cast a spell and you aren't holding a focus weapon you must spend a free action to put it away before casting your spell.
Yes you can put your weapon away even if its part of a set and not lose the set bonus.
Shields don't block casting.


That's basically it.
Where folks will trip up is when they want to stow weapons to cast AND use a free action item.
No one is going to know what the focus weapons are.

Druegar wrote:

jedibcg wrote: Except that healing in my experience is never been reviewed by a DM. I know it is on the party card NOW but the amount of HP to supply had been something the casting character relayed.

I tweaked your example from cleric to caster to be more inclusive, but you're right. DMs rarely concern themselves with HP. Since HP is tracked by players, if they're going to cheat, they're going to cheat. The outcome of this discussion won't change that.

Right but in the example I provided it is not cheating....sleazy maybe but not cheating.

jedibcg wrote: Right but in the example I provided it is not cheating....sleazy maybe but not cheating.

Absolutely! I should have phrased my response better to make that clear because I did not mean to imply your example was a cheat.

valetutto wrote:

• TD now uses focus weapons.
• A focus weapon allows you to cast a spell and still hold the weapon.
• If you want to cast a spell and you aren't holding a focus weapon you must spend a free action to put it away before casting your spell.
• Yes you can put your weapon away even if its part of a set and not lose the set bonus.
• Shields don't block casting.

A+! You get a

valetutto wrote: No one is going to know what the focus weapons are.

I don't understand what you're getting at here...

GaryM wrote: I'm pretty sure I'm more confused now then i was before reading this thread. Reasons to love being a barbarian.

Lol!

At the risk of adding more fuel to the fire, here are a bunch of token configurations that I think are legal, but which may not be, and I'm curious about it.

These mostly embody some sort of shenanigans around equipping alternate:
shields,
instruments,
and focus weapons
in the hands while also qualifying as equipping other items in the hands for set bonuses.

(The rationale being if I can get my hands empty, I can dern well stock them up with magic use compatible things too!)


1. Bard with Viper Strike Set and Widseth's Lute:

Bard may:
1. Equip the Viper Strike Set (+2 Viper Strike Fang, Viper Strike Belt, Viper Strike Shirt).
2. Switch into Widseth's Mystical Lute
3. Make lute-enabled-melee attacks with the +2 Viper Strike Fang and benefit from the Viper Strike Set's +2 To Hit bonus on their attacks.

This, I believe, is not controversial.

1a. Bard with Viper Strike Set and Widseth's Lute AND a different Melee Weapon

Bard may:
1. Equip the Viper Strike Set (+2 Viper Strike Fang, Viper Strike Belt, Viper Strike Shirt).
2. Switch into Widseth's Mystical Lute
3. Make Lute-enabled-melee attacks with any other melee weapon a Bard can use, such as a +1 Mithral Longsword, and benefit from the Viper Strike Set's +2 To Hit Bonus on their attacks.

This seems a bit sleazy - but hey, their +2 Viper Strike Fang is "equipped" despite not being being held, and the Lute doesn't care what it is swinging (or does it....)?

I could see this being ruled either way - but if the ruling is only the +2 Viper Strike Fang may be used in melee here, I'm not sure that's covered by the existing rules.

2. Cleric with Might and Defender Set who also uses Baton of Focus.

Cleric may:
1. Equip the Might Trio of: +2 Scepter of Might, Girdle of Might, Boots of Might for +1 level
2. Equip the Defender Helm, Plate, and Shield for a set bonus of +1 AC and free action
3. Hold in their mainhand for magic use a +2/3/5 Baton of Focus to boost spells while retaining their level, AC, and free action set bonuses.

This seems a bit sleazy, and would require changes to some character designers to correctly account for spell healing and damage bonus.

2a. Cleric with Might and Defender Set who also uses Baton of Focus and Shield of the Scholar.

Cleric may:
1. Equip the Might Trio of: +2 Scepter of Might, Girdle of Might, Boots of Might for +1 level
2. Equip the Defender Helm, Plate, and Shield for a set bonus of +1 AC and free action
3. Hold in their mainhand for magic use a +2/3/5 Baton of Focus to boost spells while retaining their level, AC, and free action set bonuses.
4. Hold in their offhand for magic use a Shield of the Scholar (in order to use its ability).

This seems sleazy to the max to me - but I can't think of why it wouldn't be allowed - I mean if the Cleric can have an _EMPTY_ shield hand well spellcasting, surely they can hold the Shield of the Scholar instead?

2b, c, d, e, f... Lots of variations of 2 involving the Cleric and Druid and various armor sets they can wear along with the aforementioned might trio.

For example, a Druid that wears the Dragonscale Set, the Might Trio of Scepter, Girdle, and Boots, and switches into the Baton of Focus and Shield of the Scholar for magic use while retaining the Dragonscale set bonus.


3. Mighty Powerful Focused Wizard:

Wizard may:
1. Equip the Might Trio of: +2 Scepter of Might, Orb of Might, Girdle of Might for +1 level
2. Switch to a +2 Staff of Power or +0/2/3/5 Staff of Focus for spellcasting while retaining the level bonus.

Sorry if this has been answered already.

Can a Bard use the Ring of Spell Storing while holding an instrument?

My understanding is Bardic instruments are compatible with "using magic" - so I would think yes.

But I could also see the answer being no.

Matthew Hayward wrote: At the risk of adding more fuel to the fire

Caveat: It's late, so I probably missed something, These are my interpretations of the rules as they currently stand. Rules can be changed.

Matthew Hayward wrote: 1. Bard with Viper Strike Set and Widseth's Lute:

1. Equip the Viper Strike Set (+2 Viper Strike Fang, Viper Strike Belt, Viper Strike Shirt).
2. Switch into Widseth's Mystical Lute
3. Make melee attacks with the +2 Viper Strike Fang and benefit from the Viper Strike Set's +2 To Hit bonus on their attacks.

allowed

Matthew Hayward wrote: 1a. Bard with Viper Strike Set and Widseth's Lute AND a different Melee Weapon

1. Equip the Viper Strike Set (+2 Viper Strike Fang, Viper Strike Belt, Viper Strike Shirt).
2. Switch into Widseth's Mystical Lute
3. Make melee attacks with any other melee weapon a Bard can use, such as a +1 Mithral Longsword, and benefit from the Viper Strike Set's +2 To Hit Bonus on their attacks.

not allowed
You can't use the lute to attack with a weapon you can't use. The lute is just a surrogate for the bard. It uses the bard's stats and must abide by all the same rules the bard does. If the bard must melee with a specific weapon, so must Widseth's.

Matthew Hayward wrote: 2. Cleric with Might and Defender Set who also uses Baton of Focus.

1. Equip the Might Trio of: +2 Scepter of Might, Girdle of Might, Boots of Might for +1 level
2. Equip the Defender Helm, Plate, and Shield for a set bonus of +1 AC and free action
3. Hold in their mainhand for magic use a Baton of Focus to boost spells.

This {snip} would require changes to some character designers to correctly account for spell healing and damage bonus.

allowed, but inconvenient
Under current rules, no programming changes necessary. If you're going to use this sleaze, you're not going to get magic stats the stats on the party card. You get to pay the price of inconvenience and the ire of your party for wasting time.

Matthew Hayward wrote: 2a. Cleric with Might and Defender Set who also uses Baton of Focus and Shield of the Scholar.

1. Equip the Might Trio of: +2 Scepter of Might, Girdle of Might, Boots of Might for +1 level
2. Equip the Defender Helm, Plate, and Shield for a set bonus of +1 AC and free action
3. Hold in their mainhand for magic use a Baton of Focus to boost spells.
4. Hold in their offhand for magic use a Shield of the Scholar (in order to use its ability).

allowed
But remember, Focus weapons and Shield of the Scholar don't mix. Focus affects spells from the card, SotS affects scrolls.

Matthew Hayward wrote: a Druid that wears the Dragonscale Set, the Might Trio of Scepter, Girdle, and Boots, and switches into the Baton of Focus and Shield of the Scholar for magic use while retaining the Dragonscale set bonus.

allowed

Matthew Hayward wrote: 3. Mighty Powerful Focused Wizard:

1. Equip the Might Trio of: +2 Scepter of Might, Orb of Might, Girdle of Might for +1 level
2. Switch to a +2 Staff of Power or +2/3/5 Staff of Focus for spellcasting while retaining the level bonus.

allowed
But remember, no melee attacks with anything other than the Scepter and Orbs effects.

---

Min-maxing multiple set bonuses is nothing new.
Can we please inter this poor horse?

Druegar wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote: At the risk of adding more fuel to the fire

Caveat: It's late, so I probably missed something, These are my interpretations of the rules as they currently stand. Rules can be changed.

Cool! Thanks - believe it or not I think I'm out of gas on this one, and I understand how it works now.

Druegar wrote:

valetutto wrote:

• TD now uses focus weapons.
• A focus weapon allows you to cast a spell and still hold the weapon.
• If you want to cast a spell and you aren't holding a focus weapon you must spend a free action to put it away before casting your spell.
• Yes you can put your weapon away even if its part of a set and not lose the set bonus.
• Shields don't block casting.

A+! You get a

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valetutto wrote: No one is going to know what the focus weapons are.

I don't understand what you're getting at here...

Oh I'm just envisioning all the question of "is this a focus weapon? what about this?"
Ofcorse there will be the obvious "but last year all I had to do was stop singing to cast a spell, now you're telling me I have to take a free action to stow my lute just to cast a spell, isn't losing bard song bad enough?"


As a side note Briano's doesn't indicate its a focus weapon. Its implied but not actually stated.
While you're on it, might want to change Required to Suggested. TD doesn't require roleplay but it suggests and encourages it, unless we've made a shift lately I'm not aware of.

valetutto wrote:

Druegar wrote:

valetutto wrote:

• TD now uses focus weapons.
• A focus weapon allows you to cast a spell and still hold the weapon.
• If you want to cast a spell and you aren't holding a focus weapon you must spend a free action to put it away before casting your spell.
• Yes you can put your weapon away even if its part of a set and not lose the set bonus.
• Shields don't block casting.

A+! You get a

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valetutto wrote: No one is going to know what the focus weapons are.

I don't understand what you're getting at here...

Oh I'm just envisioning all the question of "is this a focus weapon? what about this?"
Ofcorse there will be the obvious "but last year all I had to do was stop singing to cast a spell, now you're telling me I have to take a free action to stow my lute just to cast a spell, isn't losing bard song bad enough?"


As a side note Briano's doesn't indicate its a focus weapon. Its implied but not actually stated.
While you're on it, might want to change Required to Suggested. TD doesn't require roleplay but it suggests and encourages it, unless we've made a shift lately I'm not aware of.

Does its name say "of Focus?" Or, does the text say it grants Focus? (As of now, none do the latter)

No? There's your answer.

What about the Rings or Medallion of Focus? Do they let you cast spells CareBear-Stare style so that your hands needn't be empty? Uhm... I don't think so. All the rules discussions have been revolving around focus weapons, so I assume the others are just unfortunately named, what with the new rules.