TOPIC: Elixer of Life = Overpriced

This is something I've been thinking about for a while ever since the elixer began its meteoric rise up the price chart, about trippling over the course of it. I just don't see the value in it quite frankly. I understand that the value for any item is what the market will pay for an item, thus in some manner it's pointless to argue whether anything is overpriced or underpriced. If people will buy a 50' length of rope for 500 gold, then 500 gold is what the rope is worth.<br /><br />Still, it just dosen't seem like a sound investment to me for quite a few reasons and I thought that since I've got nothing better to do at the moment and international pancake day dosen't officially begin for another, 6 minutes, I'll enumerate for you why.<br /><br />1) The fact that the elixer of life requires a living breathing person to forcefeed it down your throat is the main limitation IMO. It basically means that it cannot be used past TPK rooms, and often, that has been the real killer in TD. The bridge room in 2004, the 102 room in 2005,  and the 6-armed whatchamacallit in 2005 all come to mind. A lot of parties tended to die en masse with no one left and that basically negates the value of an elixer if you wanted to somehow see one more room.<br /><br />2) The healing bang for the buck is hardly all that impressive. An elixer at 600 GP heals a character to max, which I think at this point maxs out around 20 points or so for the fighter-types. Lets compare this to potions of Cure Light Wounds (+5) which can do 5 points of healing for 120 GP. Evened out for gold value, that's a max of 20 (with an average of probaly around 12-13ish) vs 25. Since very few things i TD deal more than 5-6 damage or so a pop you'd think that a person could easily keep ahead of damage with cure potions if they needed to. As stated previously, insta-death rooms often claim entire parties and make elixers unusable to begin with or have had this tendancy to run off with the body so you couldn't forcefeed it an elixer even if you wanted to. Falling off the bridge or picking the wrong door in the 102 room both would have made a body unretrievable.<br /><br />While it's nice to have an insurance policy against death, which is really what people buy the elixer for, it just dosen't seem to be something th pays out for the cost. You're better off just buying a buncha cure pots and be willing to use them as the adventure progresses to keep your HPs up near max.

Henwy,<br />     I agree that the Elixer is overpriced relative to other healing items, however when you already have your best armor, weapon, etc, there are few things to spend your extra cash on.  I can always use an extra Elixer.  So I agree that most people should not be buying them, I think the high token people will continue to drive the price of these items up.   I know I paid over 900 GP (each) for two at Indy.  <br /><br />    The Elixer is kind of like a Corvette.  No one needs a Corvette and there are certainly more efficient methods of transportation.  But that doen't keep people from buying them. 

I think of it more like insurance.  Let's say that you drop $20 some odd dollars on True Dungeon.  You spend some time in the Tavern, you do some trading, you're having fun.  You go into the dungeon, and get through the first two rooms with no trouble.  Then, in room three, you get hit by a creature, it criticals, and kills you.  <br /><br />So... now you're dead.  Which sucks, cuz two and a half rooms isn't really worth $20, IMO.  The Elixir gives you that second chance to make a run.  It costs a bit (cash value being around $20 or so), but so does insurance.  And, you might not ever use it, but it's there when you need it.<br /><br />I think it's worth it.  Especially if you have players who are set on finishing the dungeon and getting full XP.  Of course, I'm sure there aren't any people like that out there...

The thing is, I'm not sure it's even possible to take damage so quickly that you die without the chance to heal in the early rooms. Even the wizard has at least 10 HPs or so, right? Could that bear or other early room monster really do 10 points on a crit? I know that cumilative damage can off you early on if you get unlucky, but that's where teh pots come into play.

In 05' we had a bard die in room two! He was very unhappy! Sometimes you get put in with other groups that only 'heal their friends'. I'm sure he would have appreciated a bit of an insurance policy like the elixer.

<br />In 05' we had a bard die in room two! He was very unhappy! Sometimes you get put in with other groups that only 'heal their friends'. I'm sure he would have appreciated a bit of an insurance policy like the elixer.<br />

<br /><br />Just as a policy, no one should by dying in room 2 (unless they are just being stupid).  Personally, the Bard got killed by a creature, I think he had a right to be unhappy.  DMs should make an effort to spread damage around and help everyone survive in room 2 if not a little bruised.<br /><br />As far as the Elixir, I agree that if you look at the effectiveness of the Elixir vs. the cost, it's expensive and money would probably be better spent on healing.  But if you die by some unlucky crit, healing won't help and I think there is a fear of not finishing a dungeon with your group.  So its really insurance and a secondary source of healing if you need it.

Not to help boost Henwy's point - but if people aren't supposed to die in rooms 1-3 then that also limits the value of an elixir, does it not???<br /><br />I can see it going for 500 - but 900 sounds like a gouge to me, and if truely only the rich are buying them up at that price then the poor will either never see one, never be inclined to use one - or else be forced to trade it away to get the other perms they need to gear up.  Seems like a bad situation for a token to be in.

Gary you are looking at it the wrong way.  Yes it will be had for poor person to get one BUT if they get one in their bag and decide to trade it, they can go a long ways toward equipping a party.  <br /><br />(I did pay the 900 GP during Saturday at GENCON when all the prices were shooting way up).<br /><br />

Not looking at it the wrong way George - just my usual silly one-eyed popeye face way... =D<br /><br />But seriously - that was my point exactly - if an elixir does show up in the bonus bag a player gets with his/her ticket he/she may be hard pressed to trade it off to gear up rather than use it the way the token was meant to be used...such is the economy we have created.  <br /><br />Oh to turn back the hands of time and carry on without a price guide J/K ...I'm sure Douglas will just love that. 

<br />Just as a policy, no one should by dying in room 2 (unless they are just being stupid).  Personally, the Bard got killed by a creature, I think he had a right to be unhappy.  DMs should make an effort to spread damage around and help everyone survive in room 2 if not a little bruised.<br /><br />As far as the Elixir, I agree that if you look at the effectiveness of the Elixir vs. the cost, it's expensive and money would probably be better spent on healing.  But if you die by some unlucky crit, healing won't help and I think there is a fear of not finishing a dungeon with your group.  So its really insurance and a secondary source of healing if you need it.<br />

<br /><br />From what I understand it was not monster damage. But puzzle/challenge/end room damage I think.<br />After I heard about that I started speiling to my groups at the beginning to keep an eye on your fellow adventurers hit points, some characters hit points are lower than others, don't take for granted they have as many as you do. Remember, you're going to need those people later! <br />I had hoped that would encourage people to look out for their fellow adventures. And agreed you shouldn't die at the first couple rooms most times. <br /><br />And bro,<br />*clears throat* Ahem,<br /><br />OOOOooooooooo, He's popeye the sailorman, He's Popeye the Sailorman,<br />He's strong till the finish, cause he eats his spinach!<br />He's popeye the sailor man! Toot Toot.<br /><br />Teehee, sorry, couldn't resist. <br /><br /><br />

Nice singing sis!<br /><br />I guess I don't see the value of the Elixir much over 500Gp that is.  I mean Henwy has a point - the altar puzzle in the final room, Gearon's puzzle in the final room - the 102 room...I think these rooms are classic dungeon challenges and I applaud their use.  (only until one kills me that is.)<br /><br />I guess the key to remember when trading is - go with what values you place on things...maybe later rather than sooner you will get your price - or maybe not at all then you have to punt or re-evaluate.<br /><br />As long as players are hunting for specific tokens - and as long as said tokens are hoarded and limited on the market...then we will continue to see the guide reflect this.  Not much anyone can do about it, but I'd like to remind everyone - power Tokens are optional in this game and in some very specific cases like those named above they don't do squat in the game.<br /><br />I think it was Dave R that said - creative and thoughtful use of tokens is rewarded...powering one's way through is surely not rewarded nor as rewarding for the player.

<br />In 05' we had a bard die in room two! He was very unhappy! Sometimes you get put in with other groups that only 'heal their friends'. I'm sure he would have appreciated a bit of an insurance policy like the elixer.<br />

<br /><br />See, when playing with joiks, the truly valuable item becomes a cloak of elvenkind. I know that whenever I'm in a group with people I don't know I'm always officially wearing that instead of the +2 cloak. That way if they do end up being joiks, I can just withdraw from combat and watch them get pummeled.