TOPIC: Final 2010 Token Proofs!

Considering that none of the TD characters are actually large enough to wield a Maul of the Titans (technically, one must be giant-sized to wield it), I'm good with having such a high strength requirement.  A character must go to extraordinary lengths to use such an extraordinary weapon.

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• The Orb of Might's swirl looks terrific!
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• I love the new starburst glow effects.

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<br /><br />It's a Rasengan.

<br />Expecting a player to use a consumable (strength potion) just so they can use their weapon is crazy. Once a fight starts you'll have to burn a round just getting ready to use your weapon (because you certainly won't have a Belt of Retrieval).<br />

<br /><br />No one expects you to use diddily squat. Don't use the weapon. Assume it's like a more permeable class-restriction. No one expects the cleric to use the bastard sword either. At least in this case, even if it's pretty much off-class you can buy your way to it if you're desperate enough.

The Falchion is now screwed up. I know Gary is happy with it being +2 but he's only looking at one half of the equation, it's use as a melee weapon. It's also a range weapon and the bonus damage is fuxing everything to ridiculous proportions. The Falchion now has an avg damage of 7.0. The mightly longbow has an average damage of 5.5. They both get the str bonus so not only is the damage higher right off the bat, but it's effectively the MIGHTY Falchion of throwing on top of this. WTH? Even as it was before, it was worthwhile bringing a falchion along not to use in melee but to use as a ranged weapon. You'd still get .5 damage bonus over using the mightly longbow. Now, it'd be stupid not to. The darn thing gets a 1.5 damage boost over what the bow can provide, flat. I can see a compromise of adjusting the falchion to a 6.5 avg damage. That would make it 1 point better than the MLB on range and 1 point worse than a straight 2-handed weapon. I still think it's ridiculous that this means that people will probably carry 'throwing falchions' for the sole purpose of range now though.<br /><br />I still think the Orb is pretty blah.<br /><br />I think the Maul would be spiffy if its class rrestriction got yanked altogether and simply a strength restriction was added. It might be a new 'growth' area for tokens in the future. Adding more stat modification and then getting players to try to meet it to use a new item. A 24 str prereq seems pretty fairly balanced since fighters/barbs can reach it without too much effort. <br /><br />

<br />The Falchion is now screwed up. I know Gary is happy with it being +2 but he's only looking at one half of the equation, it's use as a melee weapon. It's also a range weapon and the bonus damage is fuxing everything to ridiculous proportions. The Falchion now has an avg damage of 7.0. The mightly longbow has an average damage of 5.5. They both get the str bonus so not only is the damage higher right off the bat, but it's effectively the MIGHTY Falchion of throwing on top of this. WTH? Even as it was before, it was worthwhile bringing a falchion along not to use in melee but to use as a ranged weapon. You'd still get .5 damage bonus over using the mightly longbow. Now, it'd be stupid not to. The darn thing gets a 1.5 damage boost over what the bow can provide, flat. I can see a compromise of adjusting the falchion to a 6.5 avg damage. That would make it 1 point better than the MLB on range and 1 point worse than a straight 2-handed weapon. I still think it's ridiculous that this means that people will probably carry 'throwing falchions' for the sole purpose of range now though.<br />

<br /><br /><br />That's a fair point. So far I have been focusing on it as a melee weapon. Though to be perfectly honest, I asked people multiple times to explain why the +1 Throwing Falchion was actually good and after several weeks, no one ever replied. If you had simply pointed this out earlier, I wouldn't have lobbied so hard for the +2.<br /><br />That being said, I think the underlying problem isn't with the Falchion as much as it is with the thrown weapon rules. In previous threads there has been confusion and concern (over when the STR bonus is added and when not). With weapons like the Masterwork Long Spear around, I think the main problem is the rules regarding compound (thrown) weapons. Not with the Falchion by itself. A ruling prohibiting the STR bonus would quickly nullify your concerns. Another important clarification is whether Archery Bracers work on thrown weapons. (I would imagine that you can't have it both ways, having both Archery Bracers *and* STR bonuses work on your thrown Daggers of Falchions). If the Bracers of Archery only work on bona fida ranged weapons, then that could also help balance things.<br /><br />Also, the Bow is much stronger if you consider ammo (arrows) as well. Use a +2 Arrow and you get a better hit rate and more damage. And looking at the Sling Bullets, it looks like it's only going to be a matter of time until they start printing Rare Flaming/Frosty/Shocky Arrows that do +4 damage. Then even the +2 Falchion will begin to look awfully pitiful.<br /><br /><br /><br />

<br />I think the Maul would be spiffy if its class rrestriction got yanked altogether and simply a strength restriction was added. It might be a new 'growth' area for tokens in the future. Adding more stat modification and then getting players to try to meet it to use a new item. A 24 str prereq seems pretty fairly balanced since fighters/barbs can reach it without too much effort. <br />

<br /><br />I think it would create too much of a headache in the long-term.<br /><br />Every time a future STR enhancing item comes out, we'll have to re-evaluate it if it will mean a new class (Wizard?) can now use the Maul. Plus it also may constrain other things (like changes to the character sheets).

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<br />The Falchion is now screwed up. I know Gary is happy with it being +2 but he's only looking at one half of the equation, it's use as a melee weapon. It's also a range weapon and the bonus damage is fuxing everything to ridiculous proportions. The Falchion now has an avg damage of 7.0. The mightly longbow has an average damage of 5.5. They both get the str bonus so not only is the damage higher right off the bat, but it's effectively the MIGHTY Falchion of throwing on top of this. WTH? Even as it was before, it was worthwhile bringing a falchion along not to use in melee but to use as a ranged weapon. You'd still get .5 damage bonus over using the mightly longbow. Now, it'd be stupid not to. The darn thing gets a 1.5 damage boost over what the bow can provide, flat. I can see a compromise of adjusting the falchion to a 6.5 avg damage. That would make it 1 point better than the MLB on range and 1 point worse than a straight 2-handed weapon. I still think it's ridiculous that this means that people will probably carry 'throwing falchions' for the sole purpose of range now though.<br />

<br /><br /><br />That's a fair point. So far I have been focusing on it as a melee weapon. Though to be perfectly honest, I asked people multiple times to explain why the +1 Throwing Falchion was actually good and after several weeks, no one ever replied. If you had simply pointed this out earlier, I wouldn't have lobbied so hard for the +2.<br /><br />That being said, I think the underlying problem isn't with the Falchion as much as it is with the thrown weapon rules. In previous threads there has been confusion and concern (over when the STR bonus is added and when not). With weapons like the Masterwork Long Spear around, I think the main problem is the rules regarding compound (thrown) weapons. Not with the Falchion by itself. A ruling prohibiting the STR bonus would quickly nullify your concerns. Another important clarification is whether Archery Bracers work on thrown weapons. (I would imagine that you can't have it both ways, having both Archery Bracers *and* STR bonuses work on your thrown Daggers of Falchions). If the Bracers of Archery only work on bona fida ranged weapons, then that could also help balance things.<br /><br />Also, the Bow is much stronger if you consider ammo (arrows) as well. Use a +2 Arrow and you get a better hit rate and more damage. And looking at the Sling Bullets, it looks like it's only going to be a matter of time until they start printing Rare Flaming/Frosty/Shocky Arrows that do +4 damage. Then even the +2 Falchion will begin to look awfully pitiful.<br /><br /><br /><br />

<br />I think the Maul would be spiffy if its class rrestriction got yanked altogether and simply a strength restriction was added. It might be a new 'growth' area for tokens in the future. Adding more stat modification and then getting players to try to meet it to use a new item. A 24 str prereq seems pretty fairly balanced since fighters/barbs can reach it without too much effort. <br />

<br /><br />I think it would create too much of a headache in the long-term.<br /><br />Every time a future STR enhancing item comes out, we'll have to re-evaluate it if it will mean a new class (Wizard?) can now use the Maul. Plus it also may constrain other things (like changes to the character sheets).<br />

<br /><br />The +2 Falchion is much more broken than something like the Masterwork Spear, because the Falchion comes back to your hand after every throw, so it works just like a missile weapon.  The extra damage is significant over the +1 Mighty Longbow.  The +1 Mighty Longbow does have an advantage though in that it is +1 to Hit, and the Falchion does not have a "to hit" bonus when being thrown (I think).  Still - it would be best if the average damage were dropped on the Falchion, or maybe if it took a turn to return to your hand so you could only throw it every other turn. 

...Gary is happy...huh?  I could care less about sharps!

Ack!  I can see a lot of rule problems with this "throwing" thing now.  There will be a lot of misunderstandings and special rulings involved since there are melee buffs and missile buffs...and things will get confusing.  Dang it.  I can't believe I am doing this...but I think we need to kill it.  Arrghhh!  How about this?<br /><br />+1 Falchion of Defense:  Adds +2 to AC<br /><br /><br />This gives sort of a middle ground between the no shield and the big shield outfitting.<br />

<br />Ack!  I can see a lot of rule problems with this "throwing" thing now.  There will be a lot of misunderstandings and special rulings involved since there are melee buffs and missile buffs...and things will get confusing.  Dang it.  I can't believe I am doing this...but I think we need to kill it.  Arrghhh!  How about this?<br /><br />+1 Falchion of Defense:  Adds +2 to AC<br /><br /><br />This gives sort of a middle ground between the no shield and the big shield outfitting.<br /><br />

<br /><br />Jeff,<br /><br />It depends on the damage wheel.  Since it is only a +1 Weapon, and two-handed weapons are usually about 1 point of average damage higher than a one-handed weapon, would the Fighter do the same damage with a +2 one-handed weapon as a +1 two-handed Falchion?  If so, they are probably better off using a +2 one-handed weapon and a +3 or +4 shield.  <br /><br />There should be a way to tweak things so that the +1 Falchion is a good alternative to a +2 one-handed weapon and shield, without making other 2-handed weapons obsolete (it obviously must do less damage than other 2 handed weapons that don't get the AC bonus).  <br /><br />Is this kind of broken with the Plate Armor of Defense?  Now you can have +10 Plate Armor, and use a 2-handed weapon that also adds another +2 to AC (kind of getting around the "no shield" penalty).  <br /><br />Thanks,<br />Mike

You are right there...about the +10 Armor and this working together.  Oops.<br /><br />How about something straightforward:<br /><br />+1 Falchion of Life Stealing: Any "20" heals wielder 6 pts <br /><br />This gives the "no shield" crowd who can slide well and nice bonus.

<br />...Gary is happy...huh?  I could care less about sharps!<br />

<br /><br />Ya, obviously I didn't mean you. I have no clue why I saw incog's entry and thought you wrote it.

<br />How about something straightforward:<br /><br />+1 Falchion of Life Stealing: Any "20" heals wielder 6 pts <br /><br />This gives the "no shield" crowd who can slide well and nice bonus.<br />

<br /><br />Going back to the well is always a tried and true. It's not a horrible idea and if the Falchion ends up with an avg dam of 6.5, it'll match up perfectly with past precedent set by the BS of LS and generic +2 weapons.