TOPIC: What Needs a Reprint in 2010?

Awesome posts!  Please keep it up.  I appreciate the good insight from different perspectives.

<br />Having some gear you can only get by trading is good for the trade economy.  And it's not like any one piece of gear is necessary, although having a weapon, armor, and healing is pretty important - there are several ways to get those things.  <br />

<br /><br />Agreed.<br /><br />

Reprinting tokens year after year devalues older collections and makes us wonder, "Why am I collecting these things?"  If many of the tokens are reprints, and I've got a big bag from the first time around, why do I need to buy more?  That was one of the really neat things about the 2009 set - lots of new items.  And I think it's a trend that should continue.  In order to really be "collectible" each year's token set should have some "specialness".<br />

<br /><br />Well, I think there are two separate issues here.<br /><br />One is the reprint (in chippie form) of much older tokens that have only been available in woodie form. In all these cases, they haven't been available since at least 2006 (four years). Over the past several years (since chippies have been introduced), there has been a steady trajectory towards conversion. Though it could feed into the already existing problem that many people strongly prefer chippies over woodies, and older collectors may feel like it devalues their sets. Then again, it could make it easier for some people to complete their sets (since they can just offer a chippie equivalent). I do find it more aesthetically pleasing (both in the token guide and in my binders) when I can have more consistency (i.e. all chippie or all woodie).<br /><br />Secondly, when I say "reprint" I don't necessarily mean an exact reprint. In many cases, a "functional reprint" (same essential function, but with a new name and possibly a slightly different quirk). For all intents and purposes, I consider the Gladius to be a reprint of the Short Sword, the Oakspirit Armor is a reprint of Half Plate, and Belladonna is a reprint of Anti Toxin. Sure, there might be a new name, a new picture, a slightly different damage wheel (for weapons) though hopefully maintaining the same average damage, and a slight limitation (Orcish Rations, Belladonna). But it's essentially the same token.<br /><br />For those who seem opposed to "reprints," can you clarify just which sorts of reprints that you are against? Because many of the 2009 tokens are essentially reprints, just prettied up.<br /><br /><br />

<br />I do think there should be healing available every year.  Perhaps even more than the 2009 set had.  I would definitely like to see Faerie Water printed again.  It is, however, pretty useless without the Goblet - so, from a newbie's perspective, not worth pulling.  I'm pretty fond of the Dwarven/Orcish Rations and Berries and Fey Bread as healing options with some limitations on use.  I think it's nice to have plenty of that.  I wouldn't mind the return of something like Orcish Stout, Monk's Mead, or the red Potion of Cure Light Wounds, though preferably not exactly those items.<br />

<br /><br />I agree that the limitations (for Goodberries, Belladonna, etc) is appropriate. And having healing items with a drawback (like much of the Stout and Ale) is also a good idea.<br /><br />Even though newbies can't use Faerie Water, there are still plenty of experienced players who *will* want Faerie Water. In fact, I think it's a very good thing because it encourages trading between newbies and tokenholics. If it was a Cure Minor Wounds Potion, then newbies are more likely to hold on to it. But the Faerie Water has little use for them, and more use for experienced players.<br /><br />This year, there were several occasions when I'd try trading with a newbie and they'd start by saying "oh but I have nothing you'd want." Interestingly enough, the Combo item recipes required a somewhat random list of ingredients (I was running around searching for Masterwork Arrows, Mortar and Pestles, and Sling Bullets of Fire. I know other tokenholics who were looking for Fireseed Hollyberries, Cudgels, and Faerie Iron Warhammers). So it was quite refreshing (for both me and the newbies) to realize that even with their small collections, they did have worthwhile things to trade. So I think that for those reasons, reprinting Faerie Water would be a very good thing!<br /><br />

<br />Getting gold in your initial treasure bags also hurts if you don't have a chance to trade with anyone.  (That was one plus from starting out in the Tavern - being able to easily find traders after you got your starting bag of treasure.)<br />

<br /><br />Yeah, the lack of trading (mainly due to tavern location) really hurt this year. In previous years, I can recall lots of people setting up shop outside the entrance (or in the tavern). And newbies would approach with their 10 GP or 50 GP pieces, asking what sort of basic equipment they could buy with their GP.<br />

Well, as someone who has a few purples and plays every year that I get a chance to go to gencon, I think that healing is essential for new players. I think that potions of death's door are not. I like the idea that some tokens will be used for special occasions. While I wasn't able to come to gencon this year, I loved the fact that the tokens were all newly named, and would whole heartedly be for another year of all similar new tokens. As a general rule, I don't think it matters if there are 5 million of a token out there, a new player should not be expected to have to have to trade for one of the super useful tokens--many will either not be able to, or will not think about it, so I think there may be room for items like the masterwork bard's instrument and the thieve's tools every year.<br /><br />

<br />As a general rule, I don't think it matters if there are 5 million of a token out there, a new player should not be expected to have to have to trade for one of the super useful tokens--many will either not be able to, or will not think about it, so I think there may be room for items like the masterwork bard's instrument and the thieve's tools every year.<br />

<br /><br /><br />Let's see, what other variations can be made for Masterwork items:<br /><br /><br />[Bard]<br /><br />Normal Bardsong provides +1/+1<br />With Masterwork it's +1/+2<br />With Lyre of Rage it's +2/+1<br />Widseth is +1/+2 but lets you attack<br /><br />We could potentially have instruments that have +0/+3 or +3/+0.<br /><br />If Jeff decides to *not* add Countersong to the Bard's abilities, you could have a new instrument that specifically lets you Countersong.<br /><br />Other instruments could boost your saves (like normal bardsong but also with +1 to saves), or reducing damage (-1 to damage), or distracting your opponents (- hit for monsters), or increase your AC. The combinations are endless!<br /><br /><br /><br />[Cleric]<br /><br />Options here are a bit more limited.<br /><br />But maybe one Symbol that lets you get a free retry on your Turn Attempt.<br /><br />Or you can COMMAND the Undead for a round instead of inflicting damage. (All the cool evil clerics use rebuke/command undead instead of turn).<br /><br />Or with a successful turn, you instead cause the undead to lose a turn, or get a penalty to hit/AC/saves.<br /><br />Or lets you TURN elemental creatures (or animals or plants, like some of the 3rd Edition domains do).<br /><br />Heh. Maybe I should call dibs on a Purp that lets you Command Undead, or Turn Elementals!   =D<br /><br /><br /><br />[Thieves]<br /><br />How about a new Thieves Tool that lets you have any number of retries, but you take X damage (say 3 or 5 damage) each time you retry (obviously not usable with the current Masterwork Tools)?<br /><br />Instead of having to agonize over the choice of treasure or clue, how about a Thieves Tool where if you are successful, you get both! (Have your cake and eat it too). Of course, you'd need to show this tool before even attempting a check (and it means you only get one shot). Possibly too strong with the Tinkering Tool? Or something similar where you get two treasure pulls (might be too broken)?<br /><br />Or a Safety Tool, which eliminates any damage you might take from a failed attempt. (You don't get a second try, but at least you don't take damage).<br /><br /><br /><br />[Healing]<br /><br />Dwarven Ale and Orcish Stout already give penalties to AC. And Orcish Rations give a hit penalty.<br /><br />Next most obvious is to have healing that gives you a penalty to saving throws. (Alcohol might decrease your will. Or the lack of coordination decreases your reflex save).<br /><br />Or another interesting one might be a common that heals you for more than normal (3 or 5) but prevents you from getting any more healing that room. (Great for end of the room, not so great at combat since if you get hurt again you can't heal anymore).<br /><br /><br /><br />[Runestones]<br /><br />We could have something for +1 AC.<br /><br />Currently, all the + damage is only for melee weapons. We could also have variations that help ranged weapons, spells, or scrolls.<br /><br />Also something that gives + hit for melee/ranged/spells/scrolls.<br /><br /><br /><br />And on a random note, it would be nice if the Crossbows were shown some love, with some new bolts. We kind of overdosed on Sling Bullets this year. There are now 8 types of Sling Bullets, 5 types of Arrows (including Arrow of Slaying), but only two forms of Bolts.

Being a coach this year, I saw a lot of newbie runs and what they got in their starting packs.  I got a lot of questions regarding gp value tokens, which essentially were worthless to most of them.  Lots and lots of spiked bucklers and although that usually meant the new ranger always had a good offhand weapon/shield, the group would have repeats that went unused and classes that ended up with no shield.  There usually was enough balance, though to set up the key character classes (although sometimes not very strongly).  I saw several groups where the best armor any of them had was a leather cuirass, and sometimes even leather brigandine.  I hated writing down anybody with only a +2 AC.  That leaves the party member almost as unprotected as the wizard. <br /><br />I like the idea of having a starter pack that gives the essentials.  Maybe players could opt for either a starter pack or an experienced pack (which could omit the starter weapons and armor but still have a distribution of commons) <br /><br />Maybe a distribution like:<br /><br />(1) Armor wearable by Druids, Rogues, Rangers and Barbarians<br />(2) Bladed melee weapon<br />(3) Misc support item (helmet, hat, bracers, shield, etc.)<br />(4) Random general use item (5 foot iron chain, faerie water)<br />(5) Healing Item<br />(6) Better Armor wearable by Paladins, Fighters, Bards and Clerics<br />(7) Random class item (Bard instrument, Thieves Tools, Mistletoe, etc.)<br />(8) Blunt melee weapon (all class useable like a cudgel)<br />(9) Missile weapon (all class useable like a sling)<br />(10) Money item (gem, gp, gold / silver item)<br /><br />Out of the 10, you could still have a similar breakdown of common, uncommon and rare<br /><br />Obviously there would be logistical issues to overcome, but I do think new player experience would be closer to starting out in an rpg.<br /><br />*** alternatively (just thought of this) ***<br /><br />Maybe new players can be allotted X GP at the start of the adventure and can "buy" their starting equipment with that amount (potentially from a pool of common and uncommon tokens).  This would only be available to those that arrive early enough to have time for buying (and maybe could be done in the tavern to help get them acquainted with it), the rest would have to work from what their bag yielded.<br />

<br />Some of the older tokens are already devalued - re-printing them too soon only makes them even more worthless.  There must be about a billion Masterwork Thieves' Tools in circulation.  Any new player, given the opportunity to trade could probably get MWTools from any trader for about 5-10gp.  Reprinting that sort of thing seems pointless to me.  I also hope that Rope, for example, is never reprinted.  <br /><br />I liked the abundance of new tokens in the 2009 set, and I hope that trend continues.  <br /><br />

<br /><br />I agree with Arcbat. I liek the cariety each year in order to build my local DnD game.

I like the variety and theme-ing they are using for each year's tokens.

Our team has been kicking around next years strategy. Should we buy another large lot of tokens or focus just on purples needed through trades and eBay? If many of the rares are repeated, i.e. 8pt heal scrolls, gauntles of ogre power, potions of deaths door, rings of fire and frost resistance, heavy repeating crosbows. then I am sure we would go for option 2. Why buy bulk if most of the items are going to be what we already have large quantities of? Making something a little different, like this year's Fey Bread for heals, next year call it purple heart berries and give it 6hp of healing, this would be fine. 

I don't really mind "reprints" where the new item is different.  An issue of semantics, perhaps.  Though, I do think +1 Kopis is far better than yet another year of +1 Long Sword.  In terms of collectability, even superficial differences make can make interesting "new" tokens.  In terms of function, I like when they have little tweaks and trade-offs, rather than just being exactly the same thing with a different name.  If X is not clearly better than Y, but there are situational modifiers that might make each one desirable in different circumstances, then that's pretty cool. 

I agree.  Like having the Wolf Totem Armor with its additional save benefit.

Instead of potions of death's door, how about an artifact that only the Cleric (or maybe the Druid) can use to raise folks from the dead? Say a purp with three uses, now that punches are being used, it shouldn't be unbalanced.

I like the idea of regulating healing and other advantages in creative ways. For example, items other than faerie water that can be used with the cup of healing to provide some benefit. Of course, for new players there should be some straightout healing items that work without the need for an actuator. <br /><br />I also support the idea that each year's token batch should be heavy on items not seen before, even if their functions are similar or the same. It keeps things fresh and new and will encourage the continued purchase of large lots of tokens. That's also not to say that none should be reprinted. I think some should, but with lotsof prior thought and caution. <br /><br />