TOPIC: Thoughts on the next generation of tokens.

One of the problems with trading tokens for other token is that the rare and ultra rare items are so hard to get, they can only be traded for each other. No one had any interest in trading a rare item token for a whole pile of common tokens. (I offered a large pile of commons (40) and got laughed at).

I was also unlucky enough to get a 75 gp gem for my rare token. I dont mind the concept of rare and common tokens but please get rid of the gems as rare tokens. A 75 GP gem has the same trade value as a pile of common GP tokens, both are not worth anything in trade for a rare item.

I would much rather have gotten a wand with 2 charges (instead of the normal 4) than get a gem.

George

This ties in with the other post in this forum. I think that Gold is a neccessary standard. The comments I see generally indicate that the dislike for Gold centers around the fact that the trading wasn't sufficient. This has been addressed by the TA staff in other posts as an area for consideration. I wouldn't toss out the Gold yet as I think that the TA staff will insure that our Gold is useful.

I didnt say Gold was useless. I said that it was not a rare item.

It is a fine common or uncommon.

If you get gold for a rare item, you basically didnt get a rare item.

George

********** POTENTIAL SPOILERS **********

Agreed, a 75gp gem is a pretty lame Very Rare token. But if you look at Raven's price guide , you can see that it's not the worst.

The Mage Armor Scroll shows up at 40gp, although I think if we can clarify that it lasts for the entire adventure (Brian Wildrick said so), then it would probably be worth more (though still not worth as much as the permanent items).

The scroll of Keen Edge also shows up at 50gp. It's also not worth much, since it's presumably a one-use item that lasts for a single combat.

The Remove Curse scroll only shows up at 50gp, since there was no curse to deal with at Indy. Trust me, if there IS a curse, that one will shoot way up in value. Truth is, they could easily add a curse or two to the existing module between now and SoCal.

Remove Disease - 35gp. As with Remove Curse, you didn't need it in Indy, but a disease would be really easy to add. Say that you get Filth Fever if you pick up the severed, rotting arm in the entry cave. And then you'd be REALLY glad you had this scroll.

Slow Poison - 35gp. I don't know why this wasn't selling for more. As I understand it, this scroll will effectively Neutralize poison. Was the Spider poisonous? The common Anti-toxin token was going for 30gp.

Special ??? - 25gp? Well, it's sort of impossible to put a fair price on this one, having no idea what it's good for. I hear you could trade it in for a cursed item at SoCal last year. What's THAT worth to you??? At Indy, it was good for retries on rolls and puck slides. The Very Rare was good for three retries. Who knows what it will be next time. As of now, it's probably the worst Very Rare to have gotten.

So, yes, your 75gp gem sucks more than the Cloaks, or Wands, or Magic Weapons, but it's still better than some Very Rare tokens that you could have gotten. My advice would be to trade it for some things like scrolls of Remove Disease, Remove Curse, or Slow Poison while the market on those is depressed. Once the demand goes up, so will the prices.

Agreed, a 75gp gem is a pretty lame Very Rare token.

But it is better than most common and rare tokens. Not every token can be an elixer of life. Also, remember that you aren't paying for X commons and a Very Rare. You are paying for a random bag. That 75GP gem is still better than a 1GP token.

I however find that many of the anti-GP sentiments will most likely fade as a better form of trade is established.

The Mage Armor Scroll shows up at 40gp, although I think if we can clarify that it lasts for the entire adventure (Brian Wildrick said so), then it would probably be worth more (though still not worth as much as the permanent items).

I do agree that its value will likely grow. However, expect it to top off at around 60 as (if I remember correctly) it doesn't have a powerful effect.

Slow Poison - 35gp. I don't know why this wasn't selling for more. As I understand it, this scroll will effectively Neutralize poison. Was the Spider poisonous? The common Anti-toxin token was going for 30gp.

I'd have to see what this actually does before I pass judgement. If it really does negate poison, then I'd say that it is probably in the 60GP range.

Special ??? - As of now, it's probably the worst Very Rare to have gotten.

I don't know. At Indy, it should have been worth 3 Potions of Haste. What's that add up to?

At Indy, it [very rare special token] should have been worth 3 Potions of Haste. What's that add up to?

Well, not exactly. It didn't give you extra attacks unless you missed. And I was unclear on how they would actually implement it, which, I suppose, would have been different between different DMs. If you interpret 3 re-tries one way, then in the event that you've missed with an attack, you turn in your Very Rare Special, and you've got three more chances to get a hit. But once you've got a hit, you're done with your retries. Three retries for one hit. Now that's a lot less powerful/useful than having three different retries on three different occasions. I don't really know how they were handling that at Indy, or if there even was a standard.

Was there a Potion of Haste? I didn't see it on Raven's price list.

I didn't see any Potions of Haste. If they exist, then it's in the newer run of tokens. Can anyone out there shed light on this???

The Scroll of Mage Armor: If it's clarified to last for the whole Dungeon (and things seem to be leaning in that direction) then I imagine it'll be worth a lot more. I bet the low selling price at Indy had a lot to do with the fact that people didn't know what it did. We had that problem with many tokens.

Slow Poison and Anti-Toxin: The Anti-Toxin says right on the token that it gives a re-save, so people wanted them just for that chance. Plus it's a Common, so there were more of them for sale. The Slow Poison doesn't really say what it does, and since it was rare few people knew what it was worth, so it wasn't really selling. If all it does is slow the poison, it's actually preferable to use a re-save, isn't it?

Various other tokens: I agree that if the next TD module had disease in it, or curses, or whatever, that suddenly these items would go up in value. I mean - look at Rope!! At 40 GP, it was worth as much as a Scroll of Magic Missile, or two minor healing potions, or a load of steel flasks. But that's just because it was *very* handy during the game. Also, it tended to get "used up" in the dungeon, so it became scarcer as the weekend went on, and rarity drove the price up.

I imagine things wil fluctuate a lot. It'll fluctuate less, however, if TD publishes an official "price guide" for their official trader(s) to use... then you'll know that someone out there is willing to buy your old ?waterskins for a set price, and won't charge you more than so many GP for Anti-toxin, or whatever. Assuming, of course, that the trader has those items in stock. If they don't (the way the tavern wench rarely had rope available), then we go back to the rarity driving the price up.

I picked up a Potion of Haste off the Dungeon floor. It was red (Very Rare?) and allowed you to reroll one bad combat roll (not save) once.

I don't like the idea of TD setting a standard GP<->item exchange rate. That would make trade between players virtually useless. Need an item? Go to the TD store. I like the fact that things like rope were more valuable over the course of the weekend. I have a feeling that, as the pool of items possessed by the public grows larger, the economy will take care of itself.

I picked up a Potion of Haste off the Dungeon floor. It was red (Very Rare?) and allowed you to reroll one bad combat roll (not save) once.

Whoa. That's nothing like Haste. Did it say that on the token, or was that the DM's interpretation? Again, I don't like it when TD rules are so radically different from D&D rules. It just confuses everyone.

Now, if that's what a Potion of Haste is good for, then it just became the new Worst Very Rare token. A common Special was good for a single reroll (puck slide) in combat OR a reroll on a save. And those were, well, common (~25gp). I think I had about three. Haste should give you a single extra attack each round for an entire combat (hit or miss - you could get two hits every round). Now that's worthy of a Very Rare token.

Slow Poison, ah, slow poison. I never really saw the point of that spell. I guess it was beneficial on some level to have your fighter die a few rounds later. No, wait, I actually did use a slow poison once to great effect. Our cleric got poisoned (which in first edition meant instant death). Instant death, unless you could cast Slow Poison right away. With the poison slowed to prevent the Cleric's death, the Cleric was able to cast Neutralize Poison on himself. Without the Slow Poison, he would have been dead, and unable to cast the Neutralize Poison.

Anyway, from what I heard, the Slow Poison token would delay the onset of the poison long enough for you to get out of the True Dungeon. Thus, it effectively neutralized the poison. Now, I'm not sure if that was 1) True, and 2) clear to DMs. But I'm very sure that wasn't clear to players.

Arcbat: That's the way it was printed on the token itself.

A common Special was good for a single reroll (puck slide) in combat OR a reroll on a save.

Remember "Specials" change each time we run the Module. It was a cursed item at SoCal, gave a reroll this time, and I don't know what it will be at SoCal this year.

Anyway, from what I heard, the Slow Poison token would delay the onset of the poison long enough for you to get out of the True Dungeon. Thus, it effectively neutralized the poison. Now, I'm not sure if that was 1) True, and 2) clear to DMs. But I'm very sure that wasn't clear to players.

You are essentially correct. Slow Poison effectively protects you from poison effects for the rest of the dungeon. This was stated very clearly in the DM notes, so all DMs had this information.

Haste is as it says on the token, a re-roll in combat. There was no ruling on duration, but the standard would have been to have it last for the room. I would also agree that haste would make more sense as a double attack, but when the tokens have clarifications on them directly as this one does, there isn't much room for intrepretation (which is what many were mad as us DMs for doing anyway .)

Dave