TOPIC: More Info on 4-Year Patron Token - Get Your Name on a Token!

David Harris wrote: Yes, I think this is the bigger concern for some. And just like the new player argument, if you don't want to lose the aftermarket value you don't have to make a Mark. Your build will survive just fine.

The question is: Is a $1,600-2000 investment worth it to you to have a unique souvenir to commemorate your True Dungeon journey? Something to show the grandkids some day and look at and fondly to remember the good times. The one token you'll likely never sell off even when you decide to part ways with TD. Most of the people making these will have spent tens thousands on the game already and maybe even a hundred thousand or more anyway. Are you willing to accept this unique personalized souvenir.

Well if the girlfriend realizes I spent 2k on something I can't ever sell it, I might never have the opportunity to have kids much less grandkids. I may have got away with it up till now because of potential to recoup a part of the money I spent but oo man. We'll see about this one!

If one doesn't want to make on their own Mark of Enlightenment or purchase a Mark of Enlightenment from a third party, one doesn't have to. That's a perfectly valid option.

If a person purchases an 8k with the intent of selling the constituents and that person has no desire for a custom token nor for a token who's future resale value is likely to be diminished, I suspect there will be folks who still want the coolness of having a custom token knowing full-well its potential future value.

We're giving y'all advanced notice so you can make an informed decision. If we threw the soulforged aspect in at the last minute, I'd totally get why there would be this level of vexation. But that's not the case here. If you want to make one, make one. If for any reason you don't want to make one, don't make one.

Kusig wrote:

David Harris wrote: Yes, I think this is the bigger concern for some. And just like the new player argument, if you don't want to lose the aftermarket value you don't have to make a Mark. Your build will survive just fine.

The question is: Is a $1,600-2000 investment worth it to you to have a unique souvenir to commemorate your True Dungeon journey? Something to show the grandkids some day and look at and fondly to remember the good times. The one token you'll likely never sell off even when you decide to part ways with TD. Most of the people making these will have spent tens thousands on the game already and maybe even a hundred thousand or more anyway. Are you willing to accept this unique personalized souvenir.

Well if the girlfriend realizes I spent 2k on something I can't ever sell it, I might never have the opportunity to have kids much less grandkids. I may have got away with it up till now because of potential to recoup a part of the money I spent but oo man. We'll see about this one!

I hate to break it to you, but there is always the outside possibility that TD stops entirely tomorrow (or right after you craft the Mark of Enlightenment), and then likely none of your tokens will have buyers for the value you might get for them today. I still hope to be playing TD decades from now, so hopefully that doesn't happen. But, spend your $ wisely.

I guess this a part I don’t understand. Soulforged sounds really cool and with notice we can make the choice. The benifits are minimal and for new players down the road there will new ideas for things. This doesn’t give a huge advantage, but even it was a small to med advantage… doesn’t every gamer want to find a way to find a way to beat the dungeon, and have an edge ? Longer time players will have a natural advantage for being here for so long. Catching up takes time or massive amounts of money. Jeff tries more than I have ever seen to make everyone happy. I don’t see that often outside of TD

I think for a large number of players, the potential future resale value of tokens is a significant factor, and I think it makes total sense. Not many people would be willing to spend thousands of dollars per year on tokens without at least a decent chance that they could liquidate those in the future if they want to, or need to. I think that, for many of those players, they should not get one of these tokens. And I think we have plenty of advance notice for them to make that decision now.

Also, one could say "A relic-level power that I can't resell in the future isn't worth $2k", and you would probably be right. But it is important to remember that neither Jeff, nor TD, sets the value of things like this. The players and the market does it (*). So the market might be overpricing it, but that shouldn't require that Jeff changes his plans for the token. Again, I'm appreciative that we know this upfront.

Finally, I think that Jeff truly thinks of these tokens as a "thank you" to large collectors. That's why the first Orb was a surprise. If you happen to be buying $8ks anyways, for yourself or your group, then as a bonus you got an Orb. I think this is the same thing, in Jeff's mind. So, is a soul-bound relic worth $2k? Again, probably not. Is it a super cool bonus "thank you" for people who spend a lot on tokens? Definitely.

(*) Interestingly enough, I've realized that the Orbs have likely been the cause (probably unintentional) of the huge surge in token auctions. Prior to 2015, for $2k per year, you would have access to everything, and a chance at a GT. But now, you need to spend $8k per year to get everything. The number of people willing to pay $8k/yr is a lot lower than the number of people willing to pay $2k/yr. So, that really opens up the market for auctions -- people who can't or won't spend $8k per year can now get access to the $8k bonus, and its price reflects that.

Just wanted to point out the ability of the dragon orb.
I suspect that if this item were not soulforged, it would be significantly powered down/not relic level. Do you really want a $2000 UR power just so you can resell it someday? Or how about sticking to a $2000 soulforged relic power that you won't resell?

Druegar wrote: If one doesn't want to make on their own Mark of Enlightenment or purchase a Mark of Enlightenment from a third party, one doesn't have to. That's a perfectly valid option.

If a person purchases an 8k with the intent of selling the constituents and that person has no desire for a custom token nor for a token who's future resale value is likely to be diminished, I suspect there will be folks who still want the coolness of having a custom token knowing full-well its potential future value.

We're giving y'all advanced notice so you can make an informed decision. If we threw the soulforged aspect in at the last minute, I'd totally get why there would be this level of vexation. But that's not the case here. If you want to make one, make one. If for any reason you don't want to make one, don't make one.

+1

(note: this comment is specifically *not* about people. Folks have valid concerns, and I respect the opinions.)

I hate when things need to be justified by some secondary market value. It feels bad for game health, sustainability, and has a general bleh feel to it. If I wanted to trade for money, I'd work in finance.

The soulforged aspect is super cool and helps solidify that this is just meant to be a cool thank you and nothing more. I'd even suggest powering it down from relic level.

Power creep is a bigger concern than resell, since it could affect other difficulties long term. Unless we're getting super epic! *Winkwink nudgenudge*

If it's less desirable, the price will drop - that's the point of 8k group buy auctions. Plenty of pieces in the auctions are super low historically, so there's plenty of room to adjust.

Personally I would prefer if the token said something like "Forged by" rather then "Forged to", I have never really liked the soul forged concept. Even if I'm unlikely to ever sell my tokens knowing I "can't" presents a phycological hurdle when I'm trying to convince myself to buy in the first place.

That said I'm honestly more concerned about the interest in Fragment 4 dropping off a cliff and hurting auctions/token auction availability in 2026 if people who join the later decide they missed fragment 1 or 2 (see what happened with tooth 7). I wonder if we might not be better served in terms of sales over the next 4 years by saying "Any 4 fragments"

That said I'm honestly more concerned about the interest in Fragment 4 dropping off a cliff and hurting auctions/token auction availability in 2026 if people who join the later decide they missed fragment 1 or 2 (see what happened with tooth 7). I wonder if we might not be better served in terms of sales over the next 4 years by saying "Any 4 fragments"

If that is to be the decision, it needs to be announced now not 4 years from now. People are buying the Fragment 1 now with the understanding that it will be required, and they are paying market price on the secondary market with that assumption. Announcing in year 4 that suddenly you can just grab 4 Fragment 4s (for example) at the end of the auction season for a fraction of the Fragment 1 price frankly is unfair to those who are buying now (and supporting the auctions — and purchases from TD, now).

Yes it happened with the Dragon Orbs and was wrong. People were buying the 5 Orbs for the Elder Orb thinking they needed 5 unique (which was the stated plan originally). The earlier Orbs were significantly more expensive on the secondary market than the last year Orb which was going for (relative) peanuts in the auctions.

It comes off as a bait and switch. Encouraging people to buy the Fragments in years 1-3 thinking they need them and then, in year 4, deciding they don’t need them to encourage sales in year 4.

David Harris wrote:

Kusig wrote:

Druegar wrote: As of right now, there are 43 Relics in the game. By 2026, there will almost certainly be over 50. I find it fascinating that there's this much tsuris over a hypothetical player coming into the game five years in the future who won't have access to this ONE Relic. You do you, I guess.

ETA: Bah! Kirk and his faster typing skills...

Or the fact that we're essentially just burning an equivalent of $1600-2000 on the aftermarket or more with no return should we ever decide to stop playing or run into a financial situation.

Yes, I think this is the bigger concern for some. And just like the new player argument, if you don't want to lose the aftermarket value you don't have to make a Mark. Your build will survive just fine.

The question is: Is a $1,600-2000 investment worth it to you to have a unique souvenir to commemorate your True Dungeon journey? Something to show the grandkids some day and look at and fondly to remember the good times. The one token you'll likely never sell off even when you decide to part ways with TD. Most of the people making these will have spent tens thousands on the game already and maybe even a hundred thousand or more anyway. Are you willing to invest in this unique personalized souvenir?

Oh and by the way, people have been asking Jeff for the ability to do this for a while. He is simply listening to his customers, like he almost always does.

Exactly my thought. For those that this appeals to, it is here for them to make. For those that it doesn't appeal to or that are worried that there is minimal resale value, this might be a good transmute to skip. I'm glad TD is providing this opportunity for players that want them to get personalized unique soul forged tokens.

Fiddy wrote:

Kusig wrote:

David Harris wrote: Yes, I think this is the bigger concern for some. And just like the new player argument, if you don't want to lose the aftermarket value you don't have to make a Mark. Your build will survive just fine.

The question is: Is a $1,600-2000 investment worth it to you to have a unique souvenir to commemorate your True Dungeon journey? Something to show the grandkids some day and look at and fondly to remember the good times. The one token you'll likely never sell off even when you decide to part ways with TD. Most of the people making these will have spent tens thousands on the game already and maybe even a hundred thousand or more anyway. Are you willing to accept this unique personalized souvenir.

Well if the girlfriend realizes I spent 2k on something I can't ever sell it, I might never have the opportunity to have kids much less grandkids. I may have got away with it up till now because of potential to recoup a part of the money I spent but oo man. We'll see about this one!

I hate to break it to you, but there is always the outside possibility that TD stops entirely tomorrow (or right after you craft the Mark of Enlightenment), and then likely none of your tokens will have buyers for the value you might get for them today. I still hope to be playing TD decades from now, so hopefully that doesn't happen. But, spend your $ wisely.

Great point Fiddy....long live TD!