TOPIC: Safehold I and Mythic Token Ideas => Part Two

Endgame wrote: Naming quibble witth the ring of glory:

* of Glory items have always added extra rings.

Perhaps call it:
Ring of Renown
Ring of Honor
Ring of Power ( )

Or go with something more specific to TD that adds flavor, like:
Selenwa's Blessing

Ring of the Giraffe
Ring of Hydra Power

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Endgame wrote: Naming quibble witth the ring of glory:

* of Glory items have always added extra rings.

Perhaps call it:
Ring of Renown
Ring of Honor
Ring of Power ( )

Or go with something more specific to TD that adds flavor, like:
Selenwa's Blessing

Ring of the Giraffe
Ring of Hydra Power

Ring of the Ettin

Marc D wrote:

Mike Steele wrote: Ring of Glory: I'm totally OK with this, but perhaps it does require a ruling that HoP and AoTF (and any future neck TE tokens) can't stack with each other.

Why?

Put another way, if you're at the point of making a Ring of Glory and want to devote 2 slots to treasure enhancers, what's the harm in that player drawing an extra 2 Rare and 2 Uncommon from the box? (Most likely outcome based on treasure stats.)

It's not just 2 slots.

To use both HoP and AoTF you can't equip a Charm of Avarice. You would need to use a ring slot (ring of Riches) and charm slot (Charm of Good Fortune) as well.

If a Mythic player wants to do this, I'm 100% onboard with it.

We often see players that are insistent that they must have "max treasure" to maximize return on the cost of a run. If we establish a precedent that "Max Treasure" isn't really worth the time, effort, and investment, then there will possibly be a lot less angst that the Silver Nugget is getting harder to acquire.

I'd do a Mythic run right now with monsters having partial invulnerability and dealing 100 damage to everyone in the party every round.

I was really into how to mitigate taking 150 fire damage in rm7 last year November. Then, so neutered the damage** over the weekend that rm7 couldn't hurt me anymore, and it became boring.

** Actually, losing actions was far more painful than more damage as one could be metaed against far more easily ... which also made the dungeon more boring.

I consider two-person Epic to be about the right difficulty level for people with collections as extensive as mine or more extensive. At this point, if I run monk on a solo run, I'll choose Epic because there's no sense of accomplishment for anything less. I hardly have every token. In fact, quite a few people have tokens I don't own.

I don't know if I'll ever be in a position to craft a mythic token since it'll largely depend on what other tokens appear that I want to transmute (including the cost of Safehold I), but I am very happy with this new set of proposals as per Jeff's post #1. Great job!

Ian Lee wrote: I'd do a Mythic run right now with monsters having partial invulnerability and dealing 100 damage to everyone in the party every round.

I was really into how to mitigate taking 150 fire damage in rm7 last year November. Then, so neutered the damage** over the weekend that rm7 couldn't hurt me anymore, and it became boring.

** Actually, losing actions was far more painful than more damage as one could be metaed against far more easily ... which also made the dungeon more boring.

I consider two-person Epic to be about the right difficulty level for people with collections as extensive as mine or more extensive. At this point, if I run monk on a solo run, I'll choose Epic because there's no sense of accomplishment for anything less. I hardly have every token. In fact, quite a few people have tokens I don't own.

So what your saying is that you want to take more ambient damage per round this year XD

Mike Steele wrote:

1) Why not let the Safehold I have 10 Mythic Transmuter tokens and have 10 different Mythic tokens available?
I want to make it feasible for folks to collect all of the Mythic tokens. I think limited it to five is the sweet spot when factoring in rarity and cost.

2) I don't really see the point of Mythic tokens at all if they're only 50% more expensive than Legendary tokens. The jump in cost from Relic to Legendary is significantly more than the jump from Legendary to Mythic. I would recommend the Mythic tokens be significantly more expensive, or they won't really feel that special at all.
See point #1, but also keep in mind that a Safehold I has to be made, too. I'm not sure something is more special just because it is more expensive.

3) It seems like anyone playing Mythic level is going to have all or nearly all of the Mythic tokens, especially if they are as affordable as you're planning. Given that, it seems kind of non-productive to introduce a special monster power that is negated by the Mythic tokens - is it really going to come into play at all? Maybe just have the Mythic token cut the ability in half but not totally negate it?
The Mythic tokens only allow for the possibility of saving throws or AC coming into play...not negating the special Mythic monster attacks. Much depends on monster stats at that point. The Mythic power could require a very high saving throw, for example.

Matthew Hayward wrote: Simple and powerful.

Ioun Stone of Insight at +8 rather than +10 would mirror and extend ring of havoc +3 UR, +4 Relic, +6 Legendary, +8 Mythic, while also boosting all of melee/missile/spell rather than one of those.

Mythic Charm of fate at +7 rather than +8 would mirror and extend the Pharacus Cloak progression of UR->Relic +1, Relic->Legendary +2 more, Legendary->Mythic +2 more from a starting point of UR Charm of Luck.

I like dropping the IS of Insight to +8 so that all effects are +8. Easy to remember that way. Of course, that means leaving the Charm of Fate alone...

Jeff Martin wrote: Mike Steele wrote:

1) Why not let the Safehold I have 10 Mythic Transmuter tokens and have 10 different Mythic tokens available?
I want to make it feasible for folks to collect all of the Mythic tokens. I think limited it to five is the sweet spot when factoring in rarity and cost.

2) I don't really see the point of Mythic tokens at all if they're only 50% more expensive than Legendary tokens. The jump in cost from Relic to Legendary is significantly more than the jump from Legendary to Mythic. I would recommend the Mythic tokens be significantly more expensive, or they won't really feel that special at all.
See point #1, but also keep in mind that a Safehold I has to be made, too. I'm not sure something is more special just because it is more expensive.

3) It seems like anyone playing Mythic level is going to have all or nearly all of the Mythic tokens, especially if they are as affordable as you're planning. Given that, it seems kind of non-productive to introduce a special monster power that is negated by the Mythic tokens - is it really going to come into play at all? Maybe just have the Mythic token cut the ability in half but not totally negate it?
The Mythic tokens only allow for the possibility of saving throws or AC coming into play...not negating the special Mythic monster attacks. Much depends on monster stats at that point. The Mythic power could require a very high saving throw, for example.

Jeff, thanks for the replies. I appreciate all the thought and care you're putting into this.

I do like that AC might have an important role to play, it seems to be undervalued currently.

edwin wrote: Jeff - I like the ideas you posted and feel that this will allow groups of ten to form to play Mythic and would allow a person that Crafts a Safehold 1 to get Mythic tokens over time. The proposed powers work well since folks won't feel that they made legendary tokens and now regret that choice. People arguing over the value being too low are not ones who currently play Epic consistently and probably have no plans to play Mythic.

One thing that is missing is unique non-materialistic rewards for those surviving Mythic.

Regarding rewards for playing Mythic: How about we create a separate XP Board for Mythic play? Anytime you play on Mythic level you would get two XP codes with one for non-Mythic play (as is done now) and another code for the Mythic XP Board. We could have special rules and rewards unique to Mythic players. I will make a new post about that for feedback. We could have, for example, allow folks to enter up to 2 codes (instead of the limit of 1 now) to get XP for playing Mythic. Level rewards could be cool pins like the 8th level pin we have now.

EDIT: I just made a post here:

truedungeon.com/forum?view=topic&catid=762&id=258342

Matthew Hayward wrote: For the Ring of Glory: you May equip 2 neck slots token, TD may want to update the rules around Horn of Plenty and Amulet of Treasure Finding compatibility.

Today Horn of Plenty and Amulet of Treasure Finding can both be equipped (so long as you have a way to equip two neck slot items).

(Charm of Avarice can’t be used with either Horn of Plenty with Amulet of Treasure Finding, but the Horn and Amulet themselves have no such restrictions on each other.)

Or, if someone is willing to actually acquire and wear all the treasure stuff maybe they deserve +4 treasure over what others will get.

Good point. We'd have to update those two items and now they work. We'd have to make it so the Ring of Glory would not work with them. A lot of them have been melted down, so I don't want to make them usable again.

Fred K wrote:
Jeff

Can I make a suggestion editing the powers a bit? There is a concern of a token's main purpose is to overcome something only present in Mythic. That doesn't feel rewarding. Essentially, it becomes a "Token of Anti-Mythic Effect #1." If mythic effects were just significant expansions of regular effects then the tokens would feel more universally useful. A good prior suggestion is to allow mythic creatures to crit, have expanded crit ranges, and for the crits to do something unusual. If a mythic charm of fate reverted crit damage to regular damage 2/game plus had +8 to saves - that balances a new power and ways to work around it. I would recommend the Ioun Stone of Insight reduce Magic Resistance by 75% (ie not guaranteed) and reduces all opponent DR to wearer's attacks by 10. Then the mythic creature could have 100% magic resistance and DR of 30 and not be too much for the party with the stone. They could win without it but it would be hugely challenging.

I guess I'm saying edit things to be without mythic tokens, the fights may be exceedingly difficult to win. You could end up with a party where everyone just has the mythic wealth coin. They qualify to play mythic but if combats are then guaranteed losses if Token X isn't equipped then mythic becomes you have to have complete all mythic tokens in order to do the runs.

The ring of glory sounds great but isn't similar in power to the other tokens. It assumes the second neck slot will be the charm necklace to optimize a bead and charm build. Unless the charm necklace is reprinted the same year, it will have mixed value. I'd recommend reprinting that necklace and add an additional power similar to a necklace of adaptation (ie water breathing, immunity to gasses, etc..).

Definitely look forward to seeing these! I'm sending in my Safehold 2 UC transmutes in a few weeks and will get rolling for SH 1's as soon as they are available!

Fred

Anyone can play on the Mythic DR as we currently don't have any restrictions in place. We did last year, so that is probably your reference. I like the Neck slot being open again -- so that we can make some new and interesting items to give players more choices.