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DM Feedback 2 months 3 weeks ago #1

  • bpsymington
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So far all my VTD experiences have been awesome. Hosts, coaches, DMs, golems, and NPCs have been great.

I do have one suggestion for DMs for combat rooms, especially for higher level parties. Please vary the order of classes as you call for their attacks. I know it's common to just run through the list alphabetically from barbarian to wizard, but today I did a run wherein I only cast two spells (technically I doublecast lightning storm in room 7, so three spells) for the entire adventure because my party was so awesome and powerful. Maybe start off barbarian to wizard, then do the reverse. Then start at fighter next round, or something like that.

That's all. See you all for V4a!
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DM Feedback 2 months 3 weeks ago #2

The DM for the run I was on Saturday already did this. I agree it seems like a nice tweak to change things up a bit and would be nice as a recommendation to share among DMs. Not sure it needs to be official policy that it must work that way though.

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DM Feedback 2 months 3 weeks ago #3

Agree but also disagree. I like it when the DM asks if there is a class that needs to do something that may impact other classes. For example:

Bard may want to do lore check before people start making their attacks
Cleric may want to cast bless/prayer or restore power/spell
Rogue may want to flank for someone before they roll
Wizards may want to cast their buff spells (I actually saw that happen this weekend)

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DM Feedback 2 months 3 weeks ago #4

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Fiddy wrote: Agree but also disagree. I like it when the DM asks if there is a class that needs to do something that may impact other classes. For example:

Bard may want to do lore check before people start making their attacks
Cleric may want to cast bless/prayer or restore power/spell
Rogue may want to flank for someone before they roll
Wizards may want to cast their buff spells (I actually saw that happen this weekend)


When I was going to cast Bull's Strength I just threw it in chat ahead of time so the targeted character would know that I was going to do that even if I was not called before them. Not saying everyone should do that, but just an idea.
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DM Feedback 2 months 3 weeks ago #5

I think it works well when the DM asks if there are any classes that always want to go first (usually Bard/Cleric), is open to suggestions when a player asks if they can go early that round (like a flanking Rogue) and then varies the combat order for everyone else. Going alpha then reverse alpha, or noting where the combat left off and starting at the next person, are all great. I’ve also seen what appears to be DMs letting everyone have a go even if the monster was probably dead 3 people into the round (although sometimes the casters might prefer not to waste a spell). Variety is good so the Paladin/Ranger/Rogue/Wizard don't feel left out.

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DM Feedback 2 months 3 weeks ago #6

While it's not that easy to run out of spells, there can be a reason to cast as few spells as possible, especially if considering more than a 0th level spell where later use may be better.

There are all sorts of variation in what parties might want to do from combat to combat. An easy run vs. a challenging run can also have different interests. A cleric might want to Prayer first or may want to heal last. Wizard may want to wait to do Lesser Maze or cast AoE early before someone wastes an attack finishing off one of multiple enemies that would have already be taken out by the spell.

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DM Feedback 2 months 3 weeks ago #7

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Aegoce wrote: The DM for the run I was on Saturday already did this. I agree it seems like a nice tweak to change things up a bit and would be nice as a recommendation to share among DMs. Not sure it needs to be official policy that it must work that way though.


I agree - no need for an official policy. I suppose next time I could ask the DM to do this at the start of the adventure.
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DM Feedback 2 months 3 weeks ago #8

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Fiddy wrote: Agree but also disagree. I like it when the DM asks if there is a class that needs to do something that may impact other classes. For example:

Bard may want to do lore check before people start making their attacks
Cleric may want to cast bless/prayer or restore power/spell
Rogue may want to flank for someone before they roll
Wizards may want to cast their buff spells (I actually saw that happen this weekend)


I cast a buff spell for the first time ever this weekend! And I am sure it was the same room!

The party could certainly say something about these actions at the start of combat.
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DM Feedback 2 months 3 weeks ago #9

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jedibcg banjo 2020 is the worst wrote:

Fiddy wrote: Agree but also disagree. I like it when the DM asks if there is a class that needs to do something that may impact other classes. For example:

Bard may want to do lore check before people start making their attacks
Cleric may want to cast bless/prayer or restore power/spell
Rogue may want to flank for someone before they roll
Wizards may want to cast their buff spells (I actually saw that happen this weekend)


When I was going to cast Bull's Strength I just threw it in chat ahead of time so the targeted character would know that I was going to do that even if I was not called before them. Not saying everyone should do that, but just an idea.


That's a good idea.
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DM Feedback 2 months 3 weeks ago #10

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BeLinda Mathie wrote: I think it works well when the DM asks if there are any classes that always want to go first (usually Bard/Cleric), is open to suggestions when a player asks if they can go early that round (like a flanking Rogue) and then varies the combat order for everyone else. Going alpha then reverse alpha, or noting where the combat left off and starting at the next person, are all great. I’ve also seen what appears to be DMs letting everyone have a go even if the monster was probably dead 3 people into the round (although sometimes the casters might prefer not to waste a spell). Variety is good so the Paladin/Ranger/Rogue/Wizard don't feel left out.


Bard/cleric going early in first round is a good idea (Bless or Prayer/lore check).
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DM Feedback 2 months 3 weeks ago #11

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Ian Lee wrote: While it's not that easy to run out of spells, there can be a reason to cast as few spells as possible, especially if considering more than a 0th level spell where later use may be better.

There are all sorts of variation in what parties might want to do from combat to combat. An easy run vs. a challenging run can also have different interests. A cleric might want to Prayer first or may want to heal last. Wizard may want to wait to do Lesser Maze or cast AoE early before someone wastes an attack finishing off one of multiple enemies that would have already be taken out by the spell.


Flexibility always a good idea.
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DM Feedback 2 months 3 weeks ago #12

As I finally realized (I think) that DM Feedback is for Deadwill Mine feedback, even though most posts are about something not specific to the dungeon, rather than create separate post, just comment here.

Obviously, going to be pretty similar to 3a. In terms of differences that I had more interest in:

Rm1 - Making fight harder was good, multiple targets is often a good thing, save is still too harsh especially without bard lore even if the tech answer to it is interesting. Losing exploration, which I'm guessing was in all cases, was unfortunate.

Rm3 - I wasn't that interested in rm3 the first time around due to large numbers of saves, damage types that are not interesting. But, more undead = better. There are lots of tokens that associate to particular monster types, I'm increasingly interested in metaing for such things.

Rm3 - Didn't really care for anything about new rm3. Limiting in a way that comes across as arbitrary, especially for a nonelective combat (this as a rm4 combat option would work better mechanically but lose the clue giving). Didn't make much thematic sense to me on multiple levels. When not just shutting down players, could be ripped through easily. Not undead anymore, meaning one less Turn room (and other stuff).

Rm5 - The taking skull thing was my favorite part. Pretty neutral otherwise except not liking the notes. Well, the free placement was maybe a good way to encourage people to try something before time runs out while not entirely removing puzzle damage. Flexing 5 was best.

Rm7 - Sounded like this may have changed somewhat, but my runs were all over the place when it came to this room. I still think that scaling for party size should be an option for parties that aren't intentionally running fewer players.

Lots of undead is a good thing in specific dungeons in my mind as it makes tech runs more interesting. Same with lots of giants or lots of poison or lots of constructs or whatever.

There are way too many saves with far too harsh effects in both 2ab and 3ab. There are ways to speed up the resolution of saves, but I would cut saves down to at most two per room not to coddle players but to speed things up. That saves are a huge consideration for my builds is mixed bag. Pro is that it's not all damage all of the time. Con - there are entire classes I doubt I'll play at Epic anymore due to how much effort have to put into saves when failing saves is so severe and I feel sympathy for those who can't just focus on saves to the extent that some can.

One thing is to have Reflex for half be in a nonelective fight and switch that in for saves of other types that do awful things in elective fights. Damage doesn't stop someone from playing the game, and Reflex is too often being less essential.

Balancing different attack types' usefulness is interesting, so I appreciate the effort.

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