TOPIC: Final MEC, Mage Medallion and Arch-Mage Medallion

My Photoshop skills are not great, and I dont think I have the correct font, but something like this:

This design is definitely appreciating over time for me. I'm now viewing the use of HP like Sympathy in Rothfuss' world (more akin to this game than space monks with laser swords )

On the Sympathy note, as an Arcanist gets smarter/stronger mentally, their connections and linking becomes stronger and more efficient. Should the Arch Mage Medallion enable abilities at a lower HP cost thematically? I'm happy with whatever choice you make either way, as there is access to more abilities with Ashenne's.

Quick question as its currently a bit ambiguous: does the Embolden Ally ability also imbue full spell bonus of just the base from the card for a given spell?

Overall I think this will lead to some fun big plays and promote teamwork. Leaving the Mage and Arch Mage powers open too is leaving me excited for the future too.

(Side question, if/when we revisit Pat's world, are we going to get legendary tokens named for those characters?)

Jeff Martin wrote: Thanks for all the great questions and feedback. I can see I need to sit down and write this thing up properly. I will do that tomorrow afternoon. I am going on very little sleep over this week, and I think I need a good night's sleep to do my best work. So...thanks for your patience!

BTW, here are the latest versions of the 3 tokens. More and better things tomorrow!

So, you can use the MEC ability for up to 14 points and still use other abilities each round, but if you use it for 15 or more you get FA and no other Mage Powers? I hope so, i like that restriction. Does the Restore Power ability allow any of them to be used a second time? It seems like it wouldn't since there is a hard rule of one each per combat.

Mike Steele wrote:

Jeff Martin wrote: Thanks for all the great questions and feedback. I can see I need to sit down and write this thing up properly. I will do that tomorrow afternoon. I am going on very little sleep over this week, and I think I need a good night's sleep to do my best work. So...thanks for your patience!

BTW, here are the latest versions of the 3 tokens. More and better things tomorrow!

So, you can use the MEC ability for up to 14 points and still use other abilities each round, but if you use it for 15 or more you get FA and no other Mage Powers? I hope so, i like that restriction. Does the Restore Power ability allow any of them to be used a second time? It seems like it wouldn't since there is a hard rule of one each per combat.

The wording may need updated.

As currently designed the intention is that the UR can be used 1/room and have the FA power if it uses 15+HP

The relic can be used up to 3 times, once with each with the UR power and the 2 relic powers

The legendary can be used up to 5 times, once with each of the 5 existing Mage Powers.


Beyond that details are a bit hazy as we wait for Jeff to post some detailed information

Jeff, I think I understand what you are wanting to achieve...so To that end, here is a possible construct:

1. Instead of doubling the damage of spells on the cards, double the boxes.
2. At the beginning of the run in the coaching room, the wizards must mark one box for every AC they have beyond 13 (the current pregen level)
3. Instead of channeling HP, they now can use any other box Conduct the “sacrifice”

It was stated earlier that mana in TD is in the form of the spell boxes. To make this come alive, mana is its purest without the trappings of the physical world (aka AC)...

This gives you the same mechanic of creating the glass cannon while adjusting the flavor of the sacrifice.

-or-

Variant: to create the same glass cannon effect, establish a mana pool off the base HP in the coaching room. This mana pool can only be boosted back to full strength when the wizard returns to max HP. Anytime the wizard comes to maxHP, the mana pool also returns to max...from there burn the mana pool. This variant keeps the resources burning and through strong teamwork, the keeping the wizard maxed is really important. The mana pool Size can then be adjusted per run as well as the construct of the wizard creates an intense balance to maintain strong proper levels of AC and HP for maintaining a strong mana pool.

-or-

we go with channeling. I personally love this so much in this format, I can assure you this years purchase will start me down the complex build of a wizard. It’s intriguing and super cool. My friends went against the grain on wizard and built a construct using wands who many on here despise but we love it because it created a complexity to how the wizard could mix damages quite easily. When the dust settles, we hope that MMM shows up as a ring slot in the future so we can bring this wand characteristic back.

Jeff Martin wrote: I wanted to speak about the concerns some good folks here expressed about the hp for damage mechanic. I can understand where they are coming from, but I wanted to tell you where I am coming from with this.

In D&D hit points represent only a tiny fraction of the brute force your body can withstand. It mostly represents luck, grit and skill to avoid bodily damage. A 12th level fighter can take on a dragon because of luck, grit and skill -- not because their body has become diamond hard. Hit points are used to drive this mechanic, and it will work well for our Wizard channeling idea, too.

I can think of many Jedi power scenes that left the heroes weak, shaken and unable to perform additional Jedi powers. This is best tracked in D&D with hit points. Almost every fantasy series that comes to mind has some scene where the hero has to exerted supreme effort to cause a special magical effect to happen -- and is left weak, weary and unable to defend themselves.

Thanks for listening.

Jeff, thanks for taking the time to explain your thought process around the current design. It does make sense I can totally support using hp as the mechanic for channeling power into spellcasting.

Jamie Campbell wrote: Jeff, I think I understand what you are wanting to achieve...so To that end, here is a possible construct:

1. Instead of doubling the damage of spells on the cards, double the boxes.
2. At the beginning of the run in the coaching room, the wizards must mark one box for every AC they have beyond 13 (the current pregen level)
3. Instead of channeling HP, they now can use any other box Conduct the “sacrifice”

It was stated earlier that mana in TD is in the form of the spell boxes. To make this come alive, mana is its purest without the trappings of the physical world (aka AC)...

This gives you the same mechanic of creating the glass cannon while adjusting the flavor of the sacrifice.

-or-

Variant: to create the same glass cannon effect, establish a mana pool off the base HP in the coaching room. This mana pool can only be boosted back to full strength when the wizard returns to max HP. Anytime the wizard comes to maxHP, the mana pool also returns to max...from there burn the mana pool. This variant keeps the resources burning and through strong teamwork, the keeping the wizard maxed is really important. The mana pool Size can then be adjusted per run as well as the construct of the wizard creates an intense balance to maintain strong proper levels of AC and HP for maintaining a strong mana pool.

-or-

we go with channeling. I personally love this so much in this format, I can assure you this years purchase will start me down the complex build of a wizard. It’s intriguing and super cool. My friends went against the grain on wizard and built a construct using wands who many on here despise but we love it because it created a complexity to how the wizard could mix damages quite easily. When the dust settles, we hope that MMM shows up as a ring slot in the future so we can bring this wand characteristic back.

I am strongly opposed to complicating the character card and having to track more than hit points and uses of boxes while in dimly lit rooms.

Arcanist Kolixela wrote: per tokendb the only tokens in the game that provide any level of spell resistence boosts are the +2 Rod if Disjunction, printed in 2011 and never reprinted, and the Charm of the Cabal printed in 2013 and never reprinted.

the Rod of Disjunction allows Bard, Cleric, Druid or Wizard to lower a target's spell resistance by 10%, to a max of 30% on any successful MELEE hit.

The Charm of the Cabal automatically provides 10/15 or 20% spell resistance reduction based on the number of charms equipped in the party.

These are the only currently existing sources of Spell Resistance in the game.

Spell resistance sucks. I wholeheartedly agree. I hate the mechanic. In a long form tabletop game it isn't so bad, but in TD you have a much more constrained box to work in, so SR has a much bigger impact.

And if you think SR is bad as a Wizard to lose one of your spells, just think how it feels when you play a Cleric and lose one of your only two damage spells to it. There just went about 50% of your offensive magic contribution for the entire dungeon to no effect.

What if the Wizard power reduced Spell resistance for the entire party for that round? Then theoretically two Wizards working together could reduce it to 0% (at a cost).

Fiddy wrote:

Arcanist Kolixela wrote: per tokendb the only tokens in the game that provide any level of spell resistence boosts are the +2 Rod if Disjunction, printed in 2011 and never reprinted, and the Charm of the Cabal printed in 2013 and never reprinted.

the Rod of Disjunction allows Bard, Cleric, Druid or Wizard to lower a target's spell resistance by 10%, to a max of 30% on any successful MELEE hit.

The Charm of the Cabal automatically provides 10/15 or 20% spell resistance reduction based on the number of charms equipped in the party.

These are the only currently existing sources of Spell Resistance in the game.

Spell resistance sucks. I wholeheartedly agree. I hate the mechanic. In a long form tabletop game it isn't so bad, but in TD you have a much more constrained box to work in, so SR has a much bigger impact.

And if you think SR is bad as a Wizard to lose one of your spells, just think how it feels when you play a Cleric and lose one of your only two damage spells to it. There just went about 50% of your offensive magic contribution for the entire dungeon to no effect.

What if the Wizard power reduced Spell resistance for the entire party for that round? Then theoretically two Wizards working together could reduce it to 0% (at a cost).

I think this is substantially better.

Also, 1 round is not really all that much for this lower.

I guess it depends on how often we are going to see spell resistance going forward. Hopefully not very often.

Arcanist Kolixela wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

Jeff Martin wrote: Thanks for all the great questions and feedback. I can see I need to sit down and write this thing up properly. I will do that tomorrow afternoon. I am going on very little sleep over this week, and I think I need a good night's sleep to do my best work. So...thanks for your patience!

BTW, here are the latest versions of the 3 tokens. More and better things tomorrow!

So, you can use the MEC ability for up to 14 points and still use other abilities each round, but if you use it for 15 or more you get FA and no other Mage Powers? I hope so, i like that restriction. Does the Restore Power ability allow any of them to be used a second time? It seems like it wouldn't since there is a hard rule of one each per combat.

The wording may need updated.

As currently designed the intention is that the UR can be used 1/room and have the FA power if it uses 15+HP

The relic can be used up to 3 times, once with each with the UR power and the 2 relic powers

The legendary can be used up to 5 times, once with each of the 5 existing Mage Powers.


Beyond that details are a bit hazy as we wait for Jeff to post some detailed information

I'm not sure, I think this is a variation on the earlier design of MEC, where if you used it you couldn't take another offensive action, but toned way down. Now, you can use it with the higher level abilities if you use it for less than 15 points, but not if you use it for 15 or more. And even if you use it for more than 15 points, you can still take other offensive actions, just not other Mage Powers.

If that is the correct interpretation, can you use other Mage Powers in a turn, and then use the MEC with Free Action ability, or do you lose the option of MEC with 15+ points of damage and FA in the room once you use another Mage Power?

Wade Schwendemann (Dr. Uid) wrote:

Fiddy wrote:

Arcanist Kolixela wrote: per tokendb the only tokens in the game that provide any level of spell resistence boosts are the +2 Rod if Disjunction, printed in 2011 and never reprinted, and the Charm of the Cabal printed in 2013 and never reprinted.

the Rod of Disjunction allows Bard, Cleric, Druid or Wizard to lower a target's spell resistance by 10%, to a max of 30% on any successful MELEE hit.

The Charm of the Cabal automatically provides 10/15 or 20% spell resistance reduction based on the number of charms equipped in the party.

These are the only currently existing sources of Spell Resistance in the game.

Spell resistance sucks. I wholeheartedly agree. I hate the mechanic. In a long form tabletop game it isn't so bad, but in TD you have a much more constrained box to work in, so SR has a much bigger impact.

And if you think SR is bad as a Wizard to lose one of your spells, just think how it feels when you play a Cleric and lose one of your only two damage spells to it. There just went about 50% of your offensive magic contribution for the entire dungeon to no effect.

What if the Wizard power reduced Spell resistance for the entire party for that round? Then theoretically two Wizards working together could reduce it to 0% (at a cost).

I think this is substantially better.

Also, 1 round is not really all that much for this lower.

I guess it depends on how often we are going to see spell resistance going forward. Hopefully not very often.

I view this as a more more powerful mage power of several items stacking and new power that allows for a mage power to last the rest of the room. In keeping with what currently exists I would think the following are two new proposed mage powers:

Group Intensify - As a Free Action (and at the cost of 45 hp), use her Mage power to reduce the target's Spell Resistance by 50% for her spells along with for their fellow companions that round.

Overwhelming Intensify - As a Free Action (and at the cost of 60 hp), use her Mage power to reduce the target's Spell Resistance by 50% for her spells along with their fellow companions. This mage power remains active in each round during which the invoking mage uses their free action to maintain.

3x cost to effect 10x characters is a good trade.

4x cost to effect 10x characters for the room is an even better trade.

Fiddy wrote:

Arcanist Kolixela wrote: per tokendb the only tokens in the game that provide any level of spell resistence boosts are the +2 Rod if Disjunction, printed in 2011 and never reprinted, and the Charm of the Cabal printed in 2013 and never reprinted.

the Rod of Disjunction allows Bard, Cleric, Druid or Wizard to lower a target's spell resistance by 10%, to a max of 30% on any successful MELEE hit.

The Charm of the Cabal automatically provides 10/15 or 20% spell resistance reduction based on the number of charms equipped in the party.

These are the only currently existing sources of Spell Resistance in the game.

Spell resistance sucks. I wholeheartedly agree. I hate the mechanic. In a long form tabletop game it isn't so bad, but in TD you have a much more constrained box to work in, so SR has a much bigger impact.

Agreed.

Spell resistance especially as a % is unappealing. This game attempts to blend traditional RPG's straight chance mechanics with an individual player's skill. Whether it's sliding pucks shuffleboard style, remembering skill checks, or solving puzzles. That's when the game is at its best.

If spell resistance in some form appears back in the game, it should fit this pattern. Players can develop some personal skill to marginalize an enemy's spell resistance.

I have no idea what this would be. We have memory tests and a shuffleboard already. A mini-game of darts for spell resistance? Seinfeld's feats of strength?