TOPIC: 2021 Ultra Rare Feedback Part Two

Marc D wrote:

Daniel White wrote: Boots of the Sweetwoods- Some kind of UR boots would be good, indeed, so I like the spirit of moving Sweetwoods to the boot slot, but as other folks have mentioned, it's now too powerful for the slot. +2Dex/+1 Con would probably be ok. Having a UR Dex Neck option was nice for some folks, but there's a 4* transmute for +4 Dex in the slot already, so I don't know how critical having a "dex neck" is.

The "Dex neck" was also to get the +4 Con. The +4 Dex neck is nice, but it doesn't have the HP and Fort boost from the +4 Con.

Oh totally. The second half of my comment was more in response to Arcanist saying there wasn't a dexterity neck earlier, which was a little overstated.

macxdmg wrote: Actually, can monks throw two nightshades a round? Checking for someone without legendaries. Also for someone who wants to break out of the “returning shrunken” market. Also for someone who burns holes in wallets and hearts.

Otherwise un-tokened Monks can only throw 2 things if they are Shurikens. So no on that account.

Gloves of the Flying Fist and Benrow's Elder Drake Necklace allow Monks to make Flurry of Blows attacks at range, so we'll have to see if Nightshade's can be used as a Flurry of Blows attack.

Now that I wrote that out I guess that's probably what you are asking too: Is Nightshade's Dagger FoB combatible?

edwin wrote:

Fiddy wrote:

Daniel White wrote: Going to leave this here for everyone to think about.

Class-Locked Item Availability By Class- 2021 URs:

Barbarian - 2
Bard - 4
Cleric - 6
Druid - 5
Fighters - 2
Monk - 1
Paladin - 4
Ranger - 1
Rogue - 1
Wizard - 4

For Ranger, Rogue and Monk, the only class locked UR in this set they can use is Nightshade's. That's out of a total of 9 class-locked items.

So you're saying they can each still use 12 out of 20 URs?

Definitely misleading in how it was presented. From 12 to 17 can be selected by a given class. How many would they select is a different story.

Whether or not misleading, last year was Barbarian, Ranger, Monk legendary.

This year is Cleric, Fighter, Wizard legendary.

it seems not unreasonable to me that the former would get a few less, and the latter a few more due to that.

Monks typically have access to less gear than most in general, it's part of their design.

Matthew Hayward wrote:

BeLinda Mathie wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote: I assume Nightshade's Throwing Dagger will grant the same power as the Short Sword

a. The Dagger symbol is an 8 normally, and adds 10 to Sneak Attack when used in a Sneak Attack.

This is a common misunderstanding. The dagger symbol is 8 normally and becomes a 10 when a Rogue uses it on a Sneak Attack. It adds 2 damage (or 4 if the sneak attack crits and gets doubled), not 10 damage. Per the Token Database (emphasis added):

If the rogue uses this weapon to perform a sneak attack, (assuming the monster has vital areas and can be sneak attacked) and the damage indicator points to the 🗡 on the damage wheel, Nightshade’s +2 Short Sword deals 10 damage over and above the usual sneak attack bonus. When not used by a rogue for a sneak attack, or when used by any other character class, the 🗡 deals 8 damage. In essence, the🗡 could be interpreted to read “8 (or 10 if sneak attacking)”.

It is a common misunderstanding - but you and I are saying the same thing.

When sneak attacking, if a dagger is the damage dot, it adds 10 to sneak attack (and 0 from the damage wheel) - which is what I said (I just didn't say the part in parenthesis, because adding 10 to the SA is the entire effect).

On Nightshade's Short Sword the dagger is an 8. I guess we don't know for sure what it is on the new one.

Fair enough. And correct, we don't know exactly what the dagger represents on this version.

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Milambus (Jake) wrote: Nightshade's +2 Throwing Dagger
Daggers are usually d4 weapons, this is a d6 weapon. I don't want it nerfed, but is there another name we could use?

Also, Druids and Wizards get to use Daggers.

Wizard is left off of Nightshades throwing dagger...not sure about Druid.

Marc D wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Marc D wrote: I'm not sure how I feel about the Medallion of Sweetwoods going from Neck to Feet and losing a point of Con.

On the one hand, it now stacks with other neck items. On the other hand, it's way beyond the power of other UR boots; it's Mithral Boots + higher Con Boots of Might combined.

I though that too - but then I remembered Boots of the North/East/South/West Wind.

Boots slot was really low powered for a long time, then the Wind boots came in...

This is the first UR Boots since those other than Shoes of the Sneak.

I think this is just where we are now for boots.

If that's where we are, that's where we are. There's obviously some sticker shock right now that would likely lead to a downgrade in the stat bumps if this stays in the Feet slot. And lead to another request for the Dex Neck next year as a replacement for Valhalla.

I'd be happy for the boots to be toned down.

Give the people what they want

Adam Guay wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Milambus (Jake) wrote: Nightshade's +2 Throwing Dagger
Daggers are usually d4 weapons, this is a d6 weapon. I don't want it nerfed, but is there another name we could use?

Also, Druids and Wizards get to use Daggers.

Wizard is left off of Nightshades throwing dagger...not sure about Druid.

And I think if you try changing the name the head of the thieves guild will come find you.

Matthew Hayward wrote:

macxdmg wrote: Actually, can monks throw two nightshades a round? Checking for someone without legendaries. Also for someone who wants to break out of the “returning shrunken” market. Also for someone who burns holes in wallets and hearts.

Otherwise un-tokened Monks can only throw 2 Shurikens. So no on that account.

Gloves of the Flying Fist and Benrow's Elder Drake Necklace allow Monks to make Flurry of Blows attacks at range, so we'll have to see if Nightshade's can be used as a Flurry of Blows attack.

Now that I wrote that out I guess that's probably what you are asking too: Is Nightshade's Dagger FoB combatible?

They are FoB compatible, single handed and usable by rogues I’m pretty sure makes it FoB. I’ll check to make sure. I was thinking of literally not using shuriken, also realized my auto correct said shrunken.

Endgame wrote: [
I'm pretty sure Wizards will never run out of spells with a free modified cast every room on top of all the other ways to cast extra spells. I haven't even considered the ramifications of that.

Well - over a typical dungeon it adds 3 or 4 spells, right?

So there are only a few scenarios:

A. Wizards wouldn't have run out of spells this dungeon. In this case, at best this turns a few level 0's into a level 1 for +5-9 per cast (possibly doubled with MeC).

B. Wizards end up running out even with this item. In this case, it granted 3 or 4 extra level 1 spells. This is quite good - but we're in a scenario where the Wizard ran out of spells so... maybe not good enough ?

C. Wizards gets 1 or 2 extra spells, and 0-3 upgraded level 0 to 1 spells.

The Charm slot is very clogged for Wizards at the ~UR level:

Spell specific: MeC, Cabal, Glory, Spellbook, Power, Heroism
Stay Alive: Synergy/Awakened Synergy, Greater Garnet, Key of Healing, Brooching
Money money money: Avarice/Good Fortune

Not to mention a bunch of rare HP/Save/DEX charms.

So to take this on something else is getting knocked out and it's pretty good (I mean - this will make the cut - but it's not like it's in the eyes slot or something).

Matthew Hayward wrote: Cranston's Helpful Hat:

Honestly, this seems too much. +3 range damage an nothing else already seems like quite a powerful UR head slot.

Compare with: +1/+1 to melee from Crown of Might and Helm of Retribution.

For goodness sake - it's got the damage bonus of UR Boots of the West Wind AND it lets you equip a 2nd eye, which for Ranged builds is your choice of: +3 to hit, +3 DEX and no 50% miss chance vs. Incorporeal, or even at uncommon another +1 to damage!

But - on the plus side, it gives me a chance to ask you:

Is Magic Missile or Sonic Dart a ranged attack? (I am genuinely confused about this.)

i preferred cranston's hat with +2 to ranged hit, but that is perhaps just me...

macxdmg wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote:

macxdmg wrote: Actually, can monks throw two nightshades a round? Checking for someone without legendaries. Also for someone who wants to break out of the “returning shrunken” market. Also for someone who burns holes in wallets and hearts.

Otherwise un-tokened Monks can only throw 2 Shurikens. So no on that account.

Gloves of the Flying Fist and Benrow's Elder Drake Necklace allow Monks to make Flurry of Blows attacks at range, so we'll have to see if Nightshade's can be used as a Flurry of Blows attack.

Now that I wrote that out I guess that's probably what you are asking too: Is Nightshade's Dagger FoB combatible?

They are FoB compatible, single handed and usable by rogues I’m pretty sure makes it FoB. I’ll check to make sure. I was thinking of literally not using shuriken, also realized my auto correct said shrunken.

Are you thinking of Ranger off-hand?

The FoB compatible list is much shorter.

Adam Guay wrote:

Adam Guay wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Milambus (Jake) wrote: Nightshade's +2 Throwing Dagger
Daggers are usually d4 weapons, this is a d6 weapon. I don't want it nerfed, but is there another name we could use?

Also, Druids and Wizards get to use Daggers.

Wizard is left off of Nightshades throwing dagger...not sure about Druid.

And I think if you try changing the name the head of the thieves guild will come find you.

Lol. I think it's the Dagger part of the name he wants changed.

Maybe Nightshade has a Javelin, Hand Axe, Pilum, (Small/Short) Spear, or Throwing Axe.

Although, actually BEHOLD:

tokendb.com/token/obsidian-dagger/

A d6 dagger usable by all (including Druid and Wizard).

So I guess it's fine to be a d6 item.

If it's a dagger it should still gain Druid and Wizard for consistency.