TOPIC: 2021 Ultra Rare Feedback

Arcanist Kolixela wrote:

Endgame wrote:

Arcanist Kolixela wrote:

Endgame wrote:

Arcanist Kolixela wrote:

Endgame wrote:

bpsymington wrote: Would prefer a +2 Staff of Power to the Bracelets of Power, but I think that ship has sailed.

i
I think I missed the initial reason for the demand for a reprint of the staff of power. Is it really just to get an effective slotless cast of a level 1 spell? If so, I guess I can see why it's not on the reprint list. I would have actually planned on using it as my primary weapon on my backup build.

It's been on and off the reprint list for 5 years. It needs to just be reprinted already

But it’s not in demand to actually be used, just to be a slotless Spell?

It's in demand as a commonly used item by Elf Wizards and is wanted by any Wizard main player.

Nightshade's is on the list specifically for Sneak Attacks, this is specifically on the list for it's room power. I see no difference

Well, the difference Would be one would be equipped the whole adventure and slid while the other is just there to act as a slotless buff. Given I dislike the idea of slotless altogether, I’m liking how Jeff is now tying this to a slot.

I don’t think wrist is the right spot, though, given the arcane set would overlap with this while both are in print.

Move it to the eye slot to give another set of eyes to pair with Cranston’s hat?

Nightshade's is used EXACTLY the same way. It's equipped for the sneak attack and swapped out once the sneak is completed. It's exactly used as a slotless sneak attack buff.

Wait, what are rogues using instead of nightshade's? I know it isn't as good as relic/legendary, but at that level you get the viper strike set bonus and don't need nightshade's at all.

Arcanist Kolixela wrote: In the vein of wanted reprints and functional reprints maybe we could potentially convert two wanted tokens into 1 functional reprint?

Remove the Bracers of Power and in their place print instead


Nightshade's Crystal - Slotless
Sneak Attack critical hits double sneak attack damage bonus
May cast a first level spell as a scroll without expending 1/room
May not equip +2 Staff of Power

Gets 2 highly wanted reprints that are currently functionally slotless into a single token that is slotless, does not allow the +2 SoP to stack. (Don't think it needs to mention Nightshades as stacking them wouldn't do anything big?)


Just a thought on a way to get 2 wanted reprints in a single token

So, instead of reprinting nightshade's, you want to print something that is better, but forces the player to ALSO buy an expensive weapon to pair with it to make it better.

Jeff Martin wrote:

Arcanist Kolixela wrote: Yep. Melee and Ranged weapons are freely swappable at any time unless they are required to complete a set bonus.

Yeah...kind of a dumb rule...if you ask me. I am sure the guy who made that rule is regretting it now. Sorry.

Well, you could always change the rules

Or create a room where everyone gets attacked that uses a free action, or can’t take free actions at all. A litch that casts some variation of time stop?

Or roll with it and create higher difficulty combats that requires switching weapons? The monster casts immunity to magical weapons. Only mundane weapons will deal damage. Monster will switch to protection from normal weapons if damaged by a weapon. If damaged exclusively by spells casts sphere of invulnerability to become immune to 5th level spells and lower.

In any case, nightshade and staff of power are so old you could do a lot with Changing them. For example, On reprint, you could add a qualifier called Bound - you may not swap this weapon while in the dungeon.

Endgame wrote: In any case, nightshade and staff of power are so old you could do a lot with Changing them. For example, On reprint, you could add a qualifier called Bound - you may not swap this weapon while in the dungeon.

I take issue with this. Just because an item is old isn't a great reason to change the way it works, sure clarify rules but I would go so far as to say it what your suggesting undermines confidence and is a bit of a slap in the face to the people who acquired the old item. If your gonna reprint something "so old" with a stealth nerf just create a new item with a similar name don't break people existing toys. Its really just the mitral gauntlets all over again. If people want a reprint give it to them or don't, but don't change things and pretend they are the same.

Endgame wrote:

Jeff Martin wrote:

Arcanist Kolixela wrote: Yep. Melee and Ranged weapons are freely swappable at any time unless they are required to complete a set bonus.

Yeah...kind of a dumb rule...if you ask me. I am sure the guy who made that rule is regretting it now. Sorry.

Well, you could always change the rules

Or create a room where everyone gets attacked that uses a free action, or can’t take free actions at all. A litch that casts some variation of time stop?

Or roll with it and create higher difficulty combats that requires switching weapons? The monster casts immunity to magical weapons. Only mundane weapons will deal damage. Monster will switch to protection from normal weapons if damaged by a weapon. If damaged exclusively by spells casts sphere of invulnerability to become immune to 5th level spells and lower.

In any case, nightshade and staff of power are so old you could do a lot with Changing them. For example, On reprint, you could add a qualifier called Bound - you may not swap this weapon while in the dungeon.

If your going to reduce the fun for some at least share the love around.

Picc wrote:

Endgame wrote: In any case, nightshade and staff of power are so old you could do a lot with Changing them. For example, On reprint, you could add a qualifier called Bound - you may not swap this weapon while in the dungeon.

I take issue with this. Just because an item is old isn't a great reason to change the way it works, sure clarify rules but I would go so far as to say it what your suggesting undermines confidence and is a bit of a slap in the face to the people who acquired the old item. If your gonna reprint something "so old" with a stealth nerf just create a new item with a similar name don't break people existing toys. Its really just the mitral gauntlets all over again. If people want a reprint give it to them or don't, but don't change things and pretend they are the same.

There is a whole separate thread where people are asserting that changing tokens retroactively is problematic and should be very very rare.

Picc wrote:

Endgame wrote: In any case, nightshade and staff of power are so old you could do a lot with Changing them. For example, On reprint, you could add a qualifier called Bound - you may not swap this weapon while in the dungeon.

I take issue with this. Just because an item is old isn't a great reason to change the way it works, sure clarify rules but I would go so far as to say it what your suggesting undermines confidence and is a bit of a slap in the face to the people who acquired the old item. If your gonna reprint something "so old" with a stealth nerf just create a new item with a similar name don't break people existing toys. Its really just the mitral gauntlets all over again. If people want a reprint give it to them or don't, but don't change things and pretend they are the same.

New name with fixed intent (ex, this weapon can’t be swapped) is fine with me, but honestly if players want it to just abuse these as a slotless effect, I don’t feel bad about reprint with change. You get the power of the token requested, you just have to love with it being equipped all game.

Honestly, if TPTB hate the weapon swap rule and these old weapons are only thing preventing changing that, is it wise to hold onto the rule to support stuff OOP 11 and 14 years? My answer is no, but TPTB can do what they want - leave them as is to become increasingly desired and increasingly expensive and unavailable.. or not.

Harlax wrote:

Picc wrote:

Endgame wrote: In any case, nightshade and staff of power are so old you could do a lot with Changing them. For example, On reprint, you could add a qualifier called Bound - you may not swap this weapon while in the dungeon.

I take issue with this. Just because an item is old isn't a great reason to change the way it works, sure clarify rules but I would go so far as to say it what your suggesting undermines confidence and is a bit of a slap in the face to the people who acquired the old item. If your gonna reprint something "so old" with a stealth nerf just create a new item with a similar name don't break people existing toys. Its really just the mitral gauntlets all over again. If people want a reprint give it to them or don't, but don't change things and pretend they are the same.

There is a whole separate thread where people are asserting that changing tokens retroactively is problematic and should be very very rare.

Preventing weapon swapping doesn't need to change any tokens, it could be a change to the game rules.
Best part, if people feel strongly that weapon availability/swapping is a defining feature of fighters; add that ability to the fighter class card.

kurtreznor wrote:

Arcanist Kolixela wrote: In the vein of wanted reprints and functional reprints maybe we could potentially convert two wanted tokens into 1 functional reprint?

Remove the Bracers of Power and in their place print instead


Nightshade's Crystal - Slotless
Sneak Attack critical hits double sneak attack damage bonus
May cast a first level spell as a scroll without expending 1/room
May not equip +2 Staff of Power

Gets 2 highly wanted reprints that are currently functionally slotless into a single token that is slotless, does not allow the +2 SoP to stack. (Don't think it needs to mention Nightshades as stacking them wouldn't do anything big?)


Just a thought on a way to get 2 wanted reprints in a single token

So, instead of reprinting nightshade's, you want to print something that is better, but forces the player to ALSO buy an expensive weapon to pair with it to make it better.

I may be incorrect but what I was interpreting is that the current use with nightshares is to hold it while using sneak attack with a the assassin's crossbow to gain the x3 crit and the boost to sneak attack damage.

I may be incorrect and misinterpreting how the current design is run for sneak attacks.

Arcanist Kolixela wrote:

kurtreznor wrote:

Arcanist Kolixela wrote: In the vein of wanted reprints and functional reprints maybe we could potentially convert two wanted tokens into 1 functional reprint?

Remove the Bracers of Power and in their place print instead


Nightshade's Crystal - Slotless
Sneak Attack critical hits double sneak attack damage bonus
May cast a first level spell as a scroll without expending 1/room
May not equip +2 Staff of Power

Gets 2 highly wanted reprints that are currently functionally slotless into a single token that is slotless, does not allow the +2 SoP to stack. (Don't think it needs to mention Nightshades as stacking them wouldn't do anything big?)


Just a thought on a way to get 2 wanted reprints in a single token

So, instead of reprinting nightshade's, you want to print something that is better, but forces the player to ALSO buy an expensive weapon to pair with it to make it better.

I may be incorrect but what I was interpreting is that the current use with nightshares is to hold it while using sneak attack with a the assassin's crossbow to gain the x3 crit and the boost to sneak attack damage.

I may be incorrect and misinterpreting how the current design is run for sneak attacks.

Nighshades only grants it’s bonus when you are attacking with it and it wielding it.

tokendb.com/token/nightshades-2-short-sword/

People use it to double to SA bonus on their melee sneak attacks.

It has no interaction with any ranged weapon.

Someone else mentioned using the Vioer Strike Set at high tiers to get the sneak attack bonus doubled - that is more al alt build, not the only option at the top end. To get the viper set the rogue has to give up two of short, waist, pants, which between them are now +3 STR shirt, +7 STR belt, +4 STR and 5hp and Maybe level boosting and possibly +1 damage pants. Depending on which other tokens you own, nighshades and all that is better than viper strike set even with the +5 viper strike fang.

Arcanist Kolixela wrote:

kurtreznor wrote:

Arcanist Kolixela wrote: In the vein of wanted reprints and functional reprints maybe we could potentially convert two wanted tokens into 1 functional reprint?

Remove the Bracers of Power and in their place print instead


Nightshade's Crystal - Slotless
Sneak Attack critical hits double sneak attack damage bonus
May cast a first level spell as a scroll without expending 1/room
May not equip +2 Staff of Power

Gets 2 highly wanted reprints that are currently functionally slotless into a single token that is slotless, does not allow the +2 SoP to stack. (Don't think it needs to mention Nightshades as stacking them wouldn't do anything big?)


Just a thought on a way to get 2 wanted reprints in a single token

So, instead of reprinting nightshade's, you want to print something that is better, but forces the player to ALSO buy an expensive weapon to pair with it to make it better.

I may be incorrect but what I was interpreting is that the current use with nightshares is to hold it while using sneak attack with a the assassin's crossbow to gain the x3 crit and the boost to sneak attack damage.

I may be incorrect and misinterpreting how the current design is run for sneak attacks.

Nope, you have to USE nightshade's to get the bonus. People were suggesting that rogues would use it for the sneak attack, then swap to a better weapon after. Though, I still question what better UR weapon they switch to.

Arcanist Kolixela wrote:

kurtreznor wrote:

Arcanist Kolixela wrote: In the vein of wanted reprints and functional reprints maybe we could potentially convert two wanted tokens into 1 functional reprint?

Remove the Bracers of Power and in their place print instead


Nightshade's Crystal - Slotless
Sneak Attack critical hits double sneak attack damage bonus
May cast a first level spell as a scroll without expending 1/room
May not equip +2 Staff of Power

Gets 2 highly wanted reprints that are currently functionally slotless into a single token that is slotless, does not allow the +2 SoP to stack. (Don't think it needs to mention Nightshades as stacking them wouldn't do anything big?)


Just a thought on a way to get 2 wanted reprints in a single token

So, instead of reprinting nightshade's, you want to print something that is better, but forces the player to ALSO buy an expensive weapon to pair with it to make it better.

I may be incorrect but what I was interpreting is that the current use with nightshares is to hold it while using sneak attack with a the assassin's crossbow to gain the x3 crit and the boost to sneak attack damage.

I may be incorrect and misinterpreting how the current design is run for sneak attacks.

I don't believe that they stack. You get the benefit from Nightshade's when you hit with it (melee) and crossbow when you hit with that (ranged). EDIT-two people beat me to it. It doesn't stack with ranged.

For what it's worth, I equip both, and don't swap weapons unless for some reason (usually in grind) a weapon is rendered useless. At that point I switch to a backup.