TOPIC: Transmute Token Ideas

+1-3 is so minuscule, it does nothing to affect hitting AC 25+ when you have no other bonuses. Adding in the Greaves’ bonus to 1-3, then that helps a little more.

I figured adding in the STR restriction meant the token could be left open for the Druid to equip as well. Fitting with the Druid’s jack of all trades nature, it gives them two comparable to hit polymorph stats: either STR or the greaves. I like the added playability of giving Druid the option of the token, even if it adds little value to the Druid. I am okay with this being a Transmute instead of a UR.

Anthony Barnstable wrote: +1-3 is so minuscule, it does nothing to affect hitting AC 25+ when you have no other bonuses. Adding in the Greaves’ bonus to 1-3, then that helps a little more.

I figured adding in the STR restriction meant the token could be left open for the Druid to equip as well. Fitting with the Druid’s jack of all trades nature, it gives them two comparable to hit polymorph stats: either STR or the greaves. I like the added playability of giving Druid the option of the token, even if it adds little value to the Druid. I am okay with this being a Transmute instead of a UR.

Polymorph is generally considered to be a playstyle. It would be good to see polymorph potions giving +to hit bonuses or to have additional gear that gives polymorph some nice bonuses but +10 in one token is too high.

A few 3* or 4* polymorph transmutable tokens could be helpful. Probably in spots like Bracers for +2/+2 when polymorphed, Eyes giving +3 to hit when polymorphed, earcuff giving +2 or +2 to hit, etc.

For reference here's a polymorph wizard with no Relic+ tokens that is +13 to hit +21 to damage. +14 spell damage and has 2 free spells from arcane set and helm of expertise. Definitely not on the to hit levels of other pure melee classes but it's higher than the suggested token

tdcharactercreator.com/#/character/edit/6ec44b65-7199-4b34-b4cb-a42801e13ecb

Poly is not my cup of tea, but I will wholeheartedly support focus tokens gaining +polymorph hit stats to make the useage a bit higher.

Mike Steele wrote: Transmuted Potion Polymorph Gargoyle, includes flying ability.

To match the themes Jeff gave us, I'll change the Polymorph Gargoyle to Polymorph Fairie Potion which includes flying.

Mike Steele wrote:

Mike Steele wrote: Transmuted Potion Polymorph Gargoyle, includes flying ability.

To match the themes Jeff gave us, I'll change the Polymorph Gargoyle to Polymorph Fairie Potion which includes flying.

Polymorph potions that give abilities like flying, or swimming, or auto-killing constructs are some of the things that make the Legendary Druid necklace fun to me. Try out crazy ideas without burning a token.

Fiddy writes
My $0.02:

There's way too much going on there. It needs to be greatly simplified, as it feels more complex than any of the class Legendaries (which are some of the more complex tokens).

If it was going to do all that, it'd probably need a higher cost. It feels like you're trying to reduce the cost by having the penalty, but the penalty has so much randomness to it that it is hard to account for that. While spelling out the count of scrolls is interesting, it really translates to 6 Alchemist Parchment. Unless the specific scrolls matter, don't overcomplicate the recipe. Current costs place it slightly higher than a 4* transmute. Probably need to add at least a URs and more trade goods and GP.

While the overall piece feels like it is Relic-worthy, the individual to bits of it don't really scale to Nightmare level usage. So you'd need to decide whether to scale down what you're trying to do (which would also lower costs), or rethink a few of the mechanics so they scale upwards.

Having penalties that other party members are stuck with due to one player equipping something is generally disliked. You fail your save, so I take damage? No.

Oh wait, it is a Helm, so probably only should be usable by Barbarians, Clerics, Dwarf Fighters, Fighters, and Paladin.

It is a very flavorful idea though. And I'm all in favor of Fighters getting some spells Just needs some work.

Alternatively, drop the penalty idea, flip the flavor from flaming to holy, and maybe make the standard actions free, and it would be an interesting approach to a Cleric class Relic.

Fiddy, my intention was to do the following:
Replicate a classic (in my opinion) D&D magic item
Extrapolate all the originals effects in TD terms
Attempt to create a transmute that used a large number of tokens from a variety of rarities (Rare thru common)
that newer players acquire in abundance.
Expand on the element of death/risk
Create something that is usable by all classes, Helm may be a the wrong description in TD terms, probably Crown of Brilliance would be better

The scrolls for a construction cost were meant to replicate the large number of gems that the crown has (up to 100 possible) in its construction. I agree, an Ultra Rare would probably be needed. The penalties are not a make or break for an item like this, and was not meant to be all 3, but a possibilities of one of them. Though, rolling a 1 is a 5% risk. The party takes a larger risk of damage to the group every time some one gets a little anxious and doesn't think thru a course of action or spell/effects versus interaction with the environment or monster. Or the story of lightning in the water with the party is just a parable retold to scare the newbies. I do believe there is ground for more risk/reward in the game, in my opinion
Is there a thread with guidelines on item creation? Is this something that could/or should be outlined as players dive into the game? I do really appreciate the response/feedback and would welcome any ideas. Being new to TD, the learning curve can be steep. Like a lot of us, i'm looking to recapture the wonder and enjoyment of yesteryear against the march of time.

Spud

Spud wrote:

Fiddy writes
My $0.02:

There's way too much going on there. It needs to be greatly simplified, as it feels more complex than any of the class Legendaries (which are some of the more complex tokens).

If it was going to do all that, it'd probably need a higher cost. It feels like you're trying to reduce the cost by having the penalty, but the penalty has so much randomness to it that it is hard to account for that. While spelling out the count of scrolls is interesting, it really translates to 6 Alchemist Parchment. Unless the specific scrolls matter, don't overcomplicate the recipe. Current costs place it slightly higher than a 4* transmute. Probably need to add at least a URs and more trade goods and GP.

While the overall piece feels like it is Relic-worthy, the individual to bits of it don't really scale to Nightmare level usage. So you'd need to decide whether to scale down what you're trying to do (which would also lower costs), or rethink a few of the mechanics so they scale upwards.

Having penalties that other party members are stuck with due to one player equipping something is generally disliked. You fail your save, so I take damage? No.

Oh wait, it is a Helm, so probably only should be usable by Barbarians, Clerics, Dwarf Fighters, Fighters, and Paladin.

It is a very flavorful idea though. And I'm all in favor of Fighters getting some spells Just needs some work.

Alternatively, drop the penalty idea, flip the flavor from flaming to holy, and maybe make the standard actions free, and it would be an interesting approach to a Cleric class Relic.

Fiddy, my intention was to do the following:
Replicate a classic (in my opinion) D&D magic item
Extrapolate all the originals effects in TD terms
Attempt to create a transmute that used a large number of tokens from a variety of rarities (Rare thru common)
that newer players acquire in abundance.
Expand on the element of death/risk
Create something that is usable by all classes, Helm may be a the wrong description in TD terms, probably Crown of Brilliance would be better

The scrolls for a construction cost were meant to replicate the large number of gems that the crown has (up to 100 possible) in its construction. I agree, an Ultra Rare would probably be needed. The penalties are not a make or break for an item like this, and was not meant to be all 3, but a possibilities of one of them. Though, rolling a 1 is a 5% risk. The party takes a larger risk of damage to the group every time some one gets a little anxious and doesn't think thru a course of action or spell/effects versus interaction with the environment or monster. Or the story of lightning in the water with the party is just a parable retold to scare the newbies. I do believe there is ground for more risk/reward in the game, in my opinion
Is there a thread with guidelines on item creation? Is this something that could/or should be outlined as players dive into the game? I do really appreciate the response/feedback and would welcome any ideas. Being new to TD, the learning curve can be steep. Like a lot of us, i'm looking to recapture the wonder and enjoyment of yesteryear against the march of time.

Spud

I think this is a cool idea, trying to tie it together:

Command word flame - this is basically the same as UR Crown of Might - although maybe it also benefits Ranged? So we're in the UR neighborhood to start with.

Fire resistance: Add in a rare bead/ioun/ring effect. Probably fine at UR but now we're really at the top of what a UR should be.

Undead Alertness: Ongoing detection of undead, 6 points of damage to undead at start of combat. The 6 points to undead at start of combat feels like an uncommon or rare Figurine. The ongoing detection of undead is probably not mechanically viable - DMs won't know who has the hat and so won't know who to tell. Maybe change it to "May cast detect undead 1/game"

We're stacking more things, and we're out of room at UR, so we're probably into Relic territory now.

Once per round cast one of: Light, Fireball, Prismatic Spray, Wall of Fire.

This basically turns the character into a Wizard, and duplicates the effect of +2 Staff of Power-ish for them.

This ability alone I don't believe would ever be generally made available to all classes.

So you'd want to drop this, or restrict it to Bard, Cleric, Druid, Wizard.

Make the ability 1/room instead of each round and you've got another UR.

Combining two URs into 2 is definitely a relic, so we're at a high tier Relic now, and maybe getting into Legendary territory.

As mentioned elsewhere, TD doesn't allow player the possibility of griefing other players, so the party impacting downside has to go.

Recipe:

Well, it's at least a relic. So... something like:

A UR
~2-3 particular rares
5-25 of each of the Trade 1 items except EM
1-2 of EM, OE, EB
1 AG
5000 GP

So the recipe would be 5x or so what you've scoped out.


But I think you could have:

Relic Crown of Brilliance - Bard, Cleric, Druid, Wizard
+1 to hit and damage and fire with melee and physical attacks
-3 from Fire
Deal 6 damage to all Undead 1/game
1/room cast one of the 4 proposed spells as a scroll as a standard action (Fireball maybe toned down to 6 damage to all)

With a typical Relic recipe, and the transmute UR being either +2 Staff of Power (if reprinted), or a new crown of might like token thats +1/+1 and flaming, -3 fire resistance usable by all.

If it has to be usable by all, then it's almost certainly a legendary, if it would ever be printed, as it basically allows all classes access to Fireball/burning hands as a scroll 1/room.

Fiddy wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

Mike Steele wrote: Transmuted Potion Polymorph Gargoyle, includes flying ability.

To match the themes Jeff gave us, I'll change the Polymorph Gargoyle to Polymorph Fairie Potion which includes flying.

Polymorph potions that give abilities like flying, or swimming, or auto-killing constructs are some of the things that make the Legendary Druid necklace fun to me. Try out crazy ideas without burning a token.

I agree completely. Hopefully we can get a Fairie polymorph token this year, or some other sort of flying consumable polymorph token.

4* Transmute:

Slotless: Goblin Snuff Box - Bard, Cleric, Druid, Wizards
At start, turn in identical Dust tokens to gain their effects for the entire adventure
2 identical dusts for Normal
3 for Hardcore
4 for Nightmare or higher

This would allow stat boosting dusts to be reflected on the party card, and evasive dusts to be in effect at the start of each room even with surprise.

Could be a UR, but I figure it's a bad random pick so trying to put it as a 4 * instead.

Matthew Hayward wrote: 4* Transmute:

Slotless: Goblin Snuff Box - Bard, Cleric, Druid, Wizards
At start, turn in identical Dust tokens to gain their effects for the entire adventure
2 identical dusts for Normal
3 for Hardcore
4 for Nightmare or higher

This would allow stat boosting dusts to be reflected on the party card, and evasive dusts to be in effect at the start of each room even with surprise.

Could be a UR, but I figure it's a bad random pick so trying to put it as a 4 * instead.

Oooo! I like! Can we do the same with arrows or bolts?

Matt Goodman wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote: 4* Transmute:

Slotless: Goblin Snuff Box - Bard, Cleric, Druid, Wizards
At start, turn in identical Dust tokens to gain their effects for the entire adventure
2 identical dusts for Normal
3 for Hardcore
4 for Nightmare or higher

This would allow stat boosting dusts to be reflected on the party card, and evasive dusts to be in effect at the start of each room even with surprise.

Could be a UR, but I figure it's a bad random pick so trying to put it as a 4 * instead.

Oooo! I like! Can we do the same with arrows or bolts?

I don't see why not, maybe different theming for that one.

4*
Slotless: Fairie Munitions Engineer - All
At start, turn in identical ammunition tokens to gain their effects for all ranged attacks with the appropriate type of weapon:
2 identical dusts for Normal
3 for Hardcore
4 for Nightmare or higher

A non-consumable animal companion for the ranger. Damage wheel 3 5 7 9 (averages to 6 as with Shadow Shot).

I thought this could be an UR, but this might be too case specific. I don't think this is relic level. Idea is just to make it so the ranger doesn't burn through consumables.

Or, just modify the tokendb to say animal companion doesn't consume the polymorph potion 🤷‍♂️