TOPIC: Transmute Token Ideas

Miathan wrote:

Fiddy wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

Arnold wrote:

Mike Steele wrote: The only bonus the Legendary actually gives beyond the Relic is to use a polymorph potion without turning it in, and as of now that seems like it will almost never be used because the Elemental polymorph damage wheel is better than any of the potions.

It's perfect for you because you've stated many times that you don't build legendary tokens. Folks with the relic basically have it made in the shade..

I'm not advocating a change for me in particular, more to take an underpowered Class Legendary and power it up a bit.

It wouldn't be hard at all to modify the Legendary Druid token to be more in line with the other Class Legendaries, since the majority of the abilities are listed in TokenDB and not on the token itself. Some possibilities are an additional bonus to hit and/or damage when polymorphed, the ability to polymorph into more than one form per room (like it originally was designed), or making the Air Elemental form flying.

How about this... once the class cards get adjusted, then we talk about whether there is a need to adjust the Legendaries.

+1

I thought about this last year with the second round of class tokens. After they are all made and/or the class cards are changed then the class tokens can be adjusted to make them all the desired power plus you will have some meta data for what was good/bad on them. Like if no one is using the animal companion or scrolls on the ranger or polymorph tokens with the Druid etc then it probably should be changed imo

It would actually be better to adjust the Druid Legendary now rather than waiting, because if it is bumped upwards in power, people can still order the UR ingredient for the Relic and the UR ingredients for the Legendary now. If we wait even a couple of months, that window closes for all three URs. There seems to be a consensus that it is underpowered compared to the other Class Legendaries, and I'm guessing that gap will only increase once this year's Class Legendaries are designed.

Mike Steele wrote:

Miathan wrote:

Fiddy wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

Arnold wrote:

Mike Steele wrote: The only bonus the Legendary actually gives beyond the Relic is to use a polymorph potion without turning it in, and as of now that seems like it will almost never be used because the Elemental polymorph damage wheel is better than any of the potions.

It's perfect for you because you've stated many times that you don't build legendary tokens. Folks with the relic basically have it made in the shade..

I'm not advocating a change for me in particular, more to take an underpowered Class Legendary and power it up a bit.

It wouldn't be hard at all to modify the Legendary Druid token to be more in line with the other Class Legendaries, since the majority of the abilities are listed in TokenDB and not on the token itself. Some possibilities are an additional bonus to hit and/or damage when polymorphed, the ability to polymorph into more than one form per room (like it originally was designed), or making the Air Elemental form flying.

How about this... once the class cards get adjusted, then we talk about whether there is a need to adjust the Legendaries.

+1

I thought about this last year with the second round of class tokens. After they are all made and/or the class cards are changed then the class tokens can be adjusted to make them all the desired power plus you will have some meta data for what was good/bad on them. Like if no one is using the animal companion or scrolls on the ranger or polymorph tokens with the Druid etc then it probably should be changed imo

It would actually be better to adjust the Druid Legendary now rather than waiting, because if it is bumped upwards in power, people can still order the UR ingredient for the Relic and the UR ingredients for the Legendary now. If we wait even a couple of months, that window closes for all three URs. There seems to be a consensus that it is underpowered compared to the other Class Legendaries, and I'm guessing that gap will only increase once this year's Class Legendaries are designed.

+1

My wife and I made the druid relic for her and then stopped. There is just not enough reason to sink the materials into making the legendary for the (1.5 average) extra points of damage on the wheel and potions aren't consumed. If the relic -> legendary power jump had anywhere close to the same power that is seen in other class tokens from relic to legendary, then I would want to see it implemented now, while I still have a chance to PYP the required components to make it.

Guedoji wrote:

SnakeEyes (Eric) wrote: I posted these two concepts for the Fighter Legendary in the thread in the barracks but I wanted to make sure they were in the official thread as well.

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#1 JEFF'S MEDALLION OF DEATH DUALING (Name tbd)
DUAL WIELD - (A second puck comes with the transmute and is the player's responsibility to carry through the dungeon.) Slide like Ranger. Second puck can only hold a weapon usable by Rogue. Can also equip a shield. (Requires DEX 20+)
STAT BONUSES: +5 STR, +3 DEX, +3 CON, +3 saves

#2 JEFF'S MEDALLION OF ULTIMATE FIGHTING (Name tbd)
TACTICAL ADVANTAGE - If Fighter hits after using Weapon Specialization, he automatically crits.
BATTLE MASTER - Use a two-handed weapon as if it is one-handed.
STAT BONUSES: +5 STR, +3 DEX, +5 CON, +7 to dmg with Melee attacks, +3 saves

I really like the idea of DUAL WIELD for the shock-and-awe of newer players who, for the most part, often play Fiighter because of it's simplicity. It will inspire them to go further down the TD rabbit-hole and make this token.

I'm also facinated about the possiblities for using a two-handed weapon as a one-handed weapon ability. Players at the Legendary level usually have tokens to play a range of classes, particularly, the Fighter-types so this is another opportunity for players to give their Barbarian weapon to their Fighter.

Fiddy had the good idea to put the details of the powers on the website and just have direction on the token. I think this is smart for two reasons, 1) It means less clutter on the token and 2) If powers need to be adjusted down the road, it allows for that flexibilty without people having to exchange the token for an updated one down the road.

Hope you like.

I didn't see a response to this so just came to say, I like it.

Thanks, Guedoji! There was a lot of discussion in the Barracks to get these to this state so maybe everyone likes?

In any case, it was fun to create some quick mock-up tokens.

Mike Steele wrote: It would actually be better to adjust the Druid Legendary now rather than waiting, because if it is bumped upwards in power, people can still order the UR ingredient for the Relic and the UR ingredients for the Legendary now. If we wait even a couple of months, that window closes for all three URs.

+1

I have Shaman's Belt and enjoy using it, but am actively waffling on the relic and definitely not planning to pursue the legendary, because as of right now I can have almost as much fun with the UR (in some cases more fun, because it works for multiple classes). If the legendary did suddenly become more impressive, I would almost certainly pick up an extra LoDS and CoSS.

Mike Steele wrote:

Miathan wrote:

Fiddy wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

Arnold wrote:

Mike Steele wrote: The only bonus the Legendary actually gives beyond the Relic is to use a polymorph potion without turning it in, and as of now that seems like it will almost never be used because the Elemental polymorph damage wheel is better than any of the potions.

It's perfect for you because you've stated many times that you don't build legendary tokens. Folks with the relic basically have it made in the shade..

I'm not advocating a change for me in particular, more to take an underpowered Class Legendary and power it up a bit.

It wouldn't be hard at all to modify the Legendary Druid token to be more in line with the other Class Legendaries, since the majority of the abilities are listed in TokenDB and not on the token itself. Some possibilities are an additional bonus to hit and/or damage when polymorphed, the ability to polymorph into more than one form per room (like it originally was designed), or making the Air Elemental form flying.

How about this... once the class cards get adjusted, then we talk about whether there is a need to adjust the Legendaries.

+1

I thought about this last year with the second round of class tokens. After they are all made and/or the class cards are changed then the class tokens can be adjusted to make them all the desired power plus you will have some meta data for what was good/bad on them. Like if no one is using the animal companion or scrolls on the ranger or polymorph tokens with the Druid etc then it probably should be changed imo

It would actually be better to adjust the Druid Legendary now rather than waiting, because if it is bumped upwards in power, people can still order the UR ingredient for the Relic and the UR ingredients for the Legendary now. If we wait even a couple of months, that window closes for all three URs. There seems to be a consensus that it is underpowered compared to the other Class Legendaries, and I'm guessing that gap will only increase once this year's Class Legendaries are designed.

I get where your coming from on this but I would think it would be an easily fixable problem to either add an in pyp option to the recipe or something of the sort. I would hate for it to be changed and then have to be changed in 2 years again kinda thing.

I would like to see something with the treasure box only amulets. Something like

Amulet bracelet : last years , this years and next years treasure only item + bracelet of frail agility = +2 to saves +1 dex + 1 con

Something along the lines of wanting to get a treasure box only item.

Miathan wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

Miathan wrote:

Fiddy wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

Arnold wrote:

Mike Steele wrote: The only bonus the Legendary actually gives beyond the Relic is to use a polymorph potion without turning it in, and as of now that seems like it will almost never be used because the Elemental polymorph damage wheel is better than any of the potions.

It's perfect for you because you've stated many times that you don't build legendary tokens. Folks with the relic basically have it made in the shade..

I'm not advocating a change for me in particular, more to take an underpowered Class Legendary and power it up a bit.

It wouldn't be hard at all to modify the Legendary Druid token to be more in line with the other Class Legendaries, since the majority of the abilities are listed in TokenDB and not on the token itself. Some possibilities are an additional bonus to hit and/or damage when polymorphed, the ability to polymorph into more than one form per room (like it originally was designed), or making the Air Elemental form flying.

How about this... once the class cards get adjusted, then we talk about whether there is a need to adjust the Legendaries.

+1

I thought about this last year with the second round of class tokens. After they are all made and/or the class cards are changed then the class tokens can be adjusted to make them all the desired power plus you will have some meta data for what was good/bad on them. Like if no one is using the animal companion or scrolls on the ranger or polymorph tokens with the Druid etc then it probably should be changed imo

It would actually be better to adjust the Druid Legendary now rather than waiting, because if it is bumped upwards in power, people can still order the UR ingredient for the Relic and the UR ingredients for the Legendary now. If we wait even a couple of months, that window closes for all three URs. There seems to be a consensus that it is underpowered compared to the other Class Legendaries, and I'm guessing that gap will only increase once this year's Class Legendaries are designed.

I get where your coming from on this but I would think it would be an easily fixable problem to either add an in pyp option to the recipe or something of the sort. I would hate for it to be changed and then have to be changed in 2 years again kinda thing.

You'd actually need 3 URs to be made available again, which seems both unlikely and unnecessary. I don't really buy the argument that we need to wait for the character cards to be revised, I doubt that there will be any changes in the character card which will have that big of an impact on this particular Legendary token. They may impact tokens like Charm of Enlightenment, but they shouldn't have any impact on this.

Mike Steele wrote:

Miathan wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

Miathan wrote:

Fiddy wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

Arnold wrote:

Mike Steele wrote: The only bonus the Legendary actually gives beyond the Relic is to use a polymorph potion without turning it in, and as of now that seems like it will almost never be used because the Elemental polymorph damage wheel is better than any of the potions.

It's perfect for you because you've stated many times that you don't build legendary tokens. Folks with the relic basically have it made in the shade..

I'm not advocating a change for me in particular, more to take an underpowered Class Legendary and power it up a bit.

It wouldn't be hard at all to modify the Legendary Druid token to be more in line with the other Class Legendaries, since the majority of the abilities are listed in TokenDB and not on the token itself. Some possibilities are an additional bonus to hit and/or damage when polymorphed, the ability to polymorph into more than one form per room (like it originally was designed), or making the Air Elemental form flying.

How about this... once the class cards get adjusted, then we talk about whether there is a need to adjust the Legendaries.

+1

I thought about this last year with the second round of class tokens. After they are all made and/or the class cards are changed then the class tokens can be adjusted to make them all the desired power plus you will have some meta data for what was good/bad on them. Like if no one is using the animal companion or scrolls on the ranger or polymorph tokens with the Druid etc then it probably should be changed imo

It would actually be better to adjust the Druid Legendary now rather than waiting, because if it is bumped upwards in power, people can still order the UR ingredient for the Relic and the UR ingredients for the Legendary now. If we wait even a couple of months, that window closes for all three URs. There seems to be a consensus that it is underpowered compared to the other Class Legendaries, and I'm guessing that gap will only increase once this year's Class Legendaries are designed.

I get where your coming from on this but I would think it would be an easily fixable problem to either add an in pyp option to the recipe or something of the sort. I would hate for it to be changed and then have to be changed in 2 years again kinda thing.

You'd actually need 3 URs to be made available again, which seems both unlikely and unnecessary. I don't really buy the argument that we need to wait for the character cards to be revised, I doubt that there will be any changes in the character card which will have that big of an impact on this particular Legendary token. They may impact tokens like Charm of Enlightenment, but they shouldn't have any impact on this.

They could do a bunch instead of reprinting. They could just call something a pyp token that if for this special case, even if they allowed it to be a random ur it would solve a lot of the problems.

I’m not really talking so much abojt card revamp as I am the “what if” this years are even more powerful than last years and same for next years. Because then the discussion could come at the end on which ones need to be balanced up and which ones down or if all should be on the top tier.

Miathan wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

Miathan wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

Miathan wrote:

Fiddy wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

Arnold wrote:

Mike Steele wrote: The only bonus the Legendary actually gives beyond the Relic is to use a polymorph potion without turning it in, and as of now that seems like it will almost never be used because the Elemental polymorph damage wheel is better than any of the potions.

It's perfect for you because you've stated many times that you don't build legendary tokens. Folks with the relic basically have it made in the shade..

I'm not advocating a change for me in particular, more to take an underpowered Class Legendary and power it up a bit.

It wouldn't be hard at all to modify the Legendary Druid token to be more in line with the other Class Legendaries, since the majority of the abilities are listed in TokenDB and not on the token itself. Some possibilities are an additional bonus to hit and/or damage when polymorphed, the ability to polymorph into more than one form per room (like it originally was designed), or making the Air Elemental form flying.

How about this... once the class cards get adjusted, then we talk about whether there is a need to adjust the Legendaries.

+1

I thought about this last year with the second round of class tokens. After they are all made and/or the class cards are changed then the class tokens can be adjusted to make them all the desired power plus you will have some meta data for what was good/bad on them. Like if no one is using the animal companion or scrolls on the ranger or polymorph tokens with the Druid etc then it probably should be changed imo

It would actually be better to adjust the Druid Legendary now rather than waiting, because if it is bumped upwards in power, people can still order the UR ingredient for the Relic and the UR ingredients for the Legendary now. If we wait even a couple of months, that window closes for all three URs. There seems to be a consensus that it is underpowered compared to the other Class Legendaries, and I'm guessing that gap will only increase once this year's Class Legendaries are designed.

I get where your coming from on this but I would think it would be an easily fixable problem to either add an in pyp option to the recipe or something of the sort. I would hate for it to be changed and then have to be changed in 2 years again kinda thing.

You'd actually need 3 URs to be made available again, which seems both unlikely and unnecessary. I don't really buy the argument that we need to wait for the character cards to be revised, I doubt that there will be any changes in the character card which will have that big of an impact on this particular Legendary token. They may impact tokens like Charm of Enlightenment, but they shouldn't have any impact on this.

They could do a bunch instead of reprinting. They could just call something a pyp token that if for this special case, even if they allowed it to be a random ur it would solve a lot of the problems.

I’m not really talking so much abojt card revamp as I am the “what if” this years are even more powerful than last years and same for next years. Because then the discussion could come at the end on which ones need to be balanced up and which ones down or if all should be on the top tier.

There aren’t any class legendaries next year, are there, I though this year was fighters, wizards, cleric and were done

Transmuted Potion Polymorph Gargoyle, includes flying ability.

I don’t know if this fits better in transmute or UR. For the Elf Wizard or Wizard who may be interested in a polymorph build, it is impossible to hit. I would either love to see Focus include +that much to hit when polymorphem, a token that adds your focus to your polymorph to hit, or a token that just adds to hit for polymorph.

Greaves of the shifter: +10 to hit when polymorphed, STR is not added to hit. (At Nightmare when AC is 28, this still means sliding 18+ for Wizards)

Anthony Barnstable wrote: I don’t know if this fits better in transmute or UR. For the Elf Wizard or Wizard who may be interested in a polymorph build, it is impossible to hit. I would either love to see Focus include +that much to hit when polymorphem, a token that adds your focus to your polymorph to hit, or a token that just adds to hit for polymorph.

Greaves of the shifter: +10 to hit when polymorphed, STR is not added to hit. (At Nightmare when AC is 28, this still means sliding 18+ for Wizards)

Poly uses melee to hit. Wizard usually gets +1 or +2 Elf Wizard get an extra +3. So there should be a small amount of hit on your poly attacks.

The greaves of the shifter could be a good item but it should be a transmute. Any poor soul pulling that as an UR would be devastated by it's value.

There's no need to add the STR limitation on it either. you'd have to build specifically for it as a Wizard which would change your equip choices. Might need to alter the token slightly, make is +6 to hit when polymorphed or something similar.

A good option for a 4* transmute choice. Probably not the greaves slot since it's treasurebox only currently.

Might make a good charm option