TOPIC: Transmute Token Ideas

Fiddy wrote:

Matthew Galambus wrote:

Arcanist Kolixela wrote:

Matthew Galambus wrote:

Arcanist Kolixela wrote: I would still like to see either the legendary have the ability to slide it as a spell against a static AC of 22 and the damage wheel being elemental types instead of damage numbers. A successful hit deals 0+spell damage bonus of the type indicated by the damage wheel.

Relic contains physical as one option, Legendary has Melee and Ranged as 2 of it's 6


I'd still want +8/+12 spell damage on the relic/legendary

And I'd definitely support either an upgraded mad evokers effect or an upgraded staff of power effect as it's final effect.


Giving it the SoP effect at relic/legendary would allow double dipping of free spells but the SoP only provides as a scroll effects so it's not really affecting damage output much

Is asking for that cantrip as a free action too much? Even half damage as a free action I still like it. Then the whole wand debate would be over.

I am unsure exactly what you are asking. Could you elaborate?

That was my bad. I totally should have clarified more.....

I was referring to the ability to slide the wizard legendary as a spell with target AC. There was talk on one of the pages about it being a cantrip, so I just referred to it as such.

Others want consumables to be boosted for slitballing ideas, which has caused a debate around Mystic Mouth.

I think your proposed effect is awesome. I was just trying to suggest that wizards get the choice to either use that slide as a standard or free action. I was suggesting that if its used as a free action, then only half of your focus bonus goes into the damage. That way its still better than Mystic Mouth as a free action, and gives the option to be used as a standard action for full focus if you run out of spells on the card or just want to slide.

Realistically, is hitting a static AC of 22 even a challenge for the people likely using the Legendary? Is it basically a 'hit-on-anything-but-1' in VTD? And when we go back to physical boards isn't it pretty close to that for most likely builds? I'd say to either go ahead and call it an auto-hit (since that's what it basically is) and tone down the damage some, or get away from static ACs for the slide and actually make the slide matter.

As far as using a free action, I think you'd have to go the auto-hit route, and definitely tone down the damage. Adding a slide for a free action seems like it has the potential to slow things down.

Yes in virtual TD it’s easy but on the boards I equip the FOP Bat for the rare occasion I do slide so that I can actually hit.

Matthew Hayward wrote:

bpsymington wrote: What's the reasoning for a wizard legendary having a sliding power? Certainly not in our baliiwick, other than one spell, a number of scrolls, and making a melee attack (and if I am doignthat something is very wrong).

Limitless spells seem thematically appropriate, but I don't remember the last time I cast more than 4-5 spells in a dungeon. rue Grind might be different, but I generally don't do TG.

The experience of casting only 4-5 spells per dungeon is not similar to mine.

The groups I've run with recently have usually been killing things in 1-2 rounds. Plus I usually get two spells cast without marking it on the card.

SnakeEyes (Eric) wrote: I posted these two concepts for the Fighter Legendary in the thread in the barracks but I wanted to make sure they were in the official thread as well.

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#1 JEFF'S MEDALLION OF DEATH DUALING (Name tbd)
DUAL WIELD - (A second puck comes with the transmute and is the player's responsibility to carry through the dungeon.) Slide like Ranger. Second puck can only hold a weapon usable by Rogue. Can also equip a shield. (Requires DEX 20+)
STAT BONUSES: +5 STR, +3 DEX, +3 CON, +3 saves

#2 JEFF'S MEDALLION OF ULTIMATE FIGHTING (Name tbd)
TACTICAL ADVANTAGE - If Fighter hits after using Weapon Specialization, he automatically crits.
BATTLE MASTER - Use a two-handed weapon as if it is one-handed.
STAT BONUSES: +5 STR, +3 DEX, +5 CON, +7 to dmg with Melee attacks, +3 saves

I really like the idea of DUAL WIELD for the shock-and-awe of newer players who, for the most part, often play Fiighter because of it's simplicity. It will inspire them to go further down the TD rabbit-hole and make this token.

I'm also facinated about the possiblities for using a two-handed weapon as a one-handed weapon ability. Players at the Legendary level usually have tokens to play a range of classes, particularly, the Fighter-types so this is another opportunity for players to give their Barbarian weapon to their Fighter.

Fiddy had the good idea to put the details of the powers on the website and just have direction on the token. I think this is smart for two reasons, 1) It means less clutter on the token and 2) If powers need to be adjusted down the road, it allows for that flexibilty without people having to exchange the token for an updated one down the road.

Hope you like.

I didn't see a response to this so just came to say, I like it.

Not sure where else to put this, so I'll try here.

Could there be unique proxy tokens for relic and legendary weapons? Clearly state that it's a proxy and have the corresponding damage wheel on the outside? It would be nice for people not to have to put a $1500 token into a puck where it might be left behind.

Mtg allows proxies for things like Moxen. So long as you can show the actual one in your collection, you can use the proxy in the deck that might suffer wear from play or be forgotten if an opponent takes control of it. I suspect something similar would set people's minds at ease.

Include one or two of these when you transmute a weapon.

If you want to use it....put it in the puck and slide it.

Ok, this one is out there but here goes

Helm of Brilliance - Transmuted Relic - 5 point (or higher)
Innate Abilities
Command Word Flame- As a Free Action, Weapon gains flaming, adding +1 to hit/damage, (does not stack with other flaming weapons) Weapon now counts as magical for combat duration.
Fire Resistance- minus 3 damage from fire (as per ring Fire Absorption)
Undead Alertness- glows blue, 30 foot radius when undead present, they take 6 points retribution damage (once, at the start of combat)

One of the following magical effects can be activated as a regular/standard action, once per round:
Light- 10 foot radius around caster vs non magical darkness
Fireball- does 8 points of damage to all monsters (same as scroll)
Prismatic Spray- all monsters are -2 to saves for remainder of combat (does not stack)
Wall of Fire- Monsters take 6 points retribution damage if striking party

Drawback/Disadvantage - if user is truck with magical flame of any type (spell, breath weapon), helm must make save. On a 1, helm is destroyed (or considered unusable for rest of game), Possible Penalties: token surrendered to GM or lose 2 treasure draws or pay GM 1000 gp. All present within combat must make a DEX save (DC 17) or be struck by a beam and take 25 points retribution damage.

Transmute Cost - 5 of ( any year) Rare Helm, 10 Rare Scrolls, 20 Uncommon Scrolls, 30 Common Scrolls. Trade Goods (TBD, perhaps 1 of each not including Golden Fleece?) and 1000 gp in gems

This brings a classic item into game use. Can be created using a large quantity of available tokens, the most of which we mulch in most cases anyway. Has several usable abilities and a devastating drawback for the unlucky. Would allow for uses for other items such as gems specially as opposed to straight gold.
As far as transmute cost, there are variables that could be played around with including requiring an ultra rare for creation.

My 2 cents

Spud

3 star transmute ideas:

Head: Immune to Surprise - All
Pants: -1 damage from melee and ranged - All
Offhand: +1 AC and +1 to melee to hit - Barbarian, Bard, Cleric, Druid, Fighters, Paladin
Neck: +1 STR, +1 AC
Ioun: +1 HP, Free Movement
Hands: +3 damage with two handed ranged weapons
Wrists: +1 to hit, +1 to damage with ranged weapons
Feet: +1 CON

4 star transmute ideas:

Eyes: +1 dex, 50% chance to reflect Gaze attack back at attacker
Earcuff: +2 HP, +3 CHA
Wrists: +1 AC and +1 Charm (or +1 Ioun)
Ring: Improved Evasion (1/game)
Ioun: +2 AC
Charm: +1 Ranged and Spell damage
Neck: +3 AC, May announce guard after monster declares attacks (1/game) - Usable all, but only Paladins can guard

Spud wrote: Ok, this one is out there but here goes

Helm of Brilliance - Transmuted Relic - 5 point (or higher)
Innate Abilities
Command Word Flame- As a Free Action, Weapon gains flaming, adding +1 to hit/damage, (does not stack with other flaming weapons) Weapon now counts as magical for combat duration.
Fire Resistance- minus 3 damage from fire (as per ring Fire Absorption)
Undead Alertness- glows blue, 30 foot radius when undead present, they take 6 points retribution damage (once, at the start of combat)

One of the following magical effects can be activated as a regular/standard action, once per round:
Light- 10 foot radius around caster vs non magical darkness
Fireball- does 8 points of damage to all monsters (same as scroll)
Prismatic Spray- all monsters are -2 to saves for remainder of combat (does not stack)
Wall of Fire- Monsters take 6 points retribution damage if striking party

Drawback/Disadvantage - if user is truck with magical flame of any type (spell, breath weapon), helm must make save. On a 1, helm is destroyed (or considered unusable for rest of game), Possible Penalties: token surrendered to GM or lose 2 treasure draws or pay GM 1000 gp. All present within combat must make a DEX save (DC 17) or be struck by a beam and take 25 points retribution damage.

Transmute Cost - 5 of ( any year) Rare Helm, 10 Rare Scrolls, 20 Uncommon Scrolls, 30 Common Scrolls. Trade Goods (TBD, perhaps 1 of each not including Golden Fleece?) and 1000 gp in gems

This brings a classic item into game use. Can be created using a large quantity of available tokens, the most of which we mulch in most cases anyway. Has several usable abilities and a devastating drawback for the unlucky. Would allow for uses for other items such as gems specially as opposed to straight gold.
As far as transmute cost, there are variables that could be played around with including requiring an ultra rare for creation.

My 2 cents

Spud

My $0.02:

There's way too much going on there. It needs to be greatly simplified, as it feels more complex than any of the class Legendaries (which are some of the more complex tokens).

If it was going to do all that, it'd probably need a higher cost. It feels like you're trying to reduce the cost by having the penalty, but the penalty has so much randomness to it that it is hard to account for that. While spelling out the count of scrolls is interesting, it really translates to 6 Alchemist Parchment. Unless the specific scrolls matter, don't overcomplicate the recipe. Current costs place it slightly higher than a 4* transmute. Probably need to add at least a URs and more trade goods and GP.

While the overall piece feels like it is Relic-worthy, the individual to bits of it don't really scale to Nightmare level usage. So you'd need to decide whether to scale down what you're trying to do (which would also lower costs), or rethink a few of the mechanics so they scale upwards.

Having penalties that other party members are stuck with due to one player equipping something is generally disliked. You fail your save, so I take damage? No.

Oh wait, it is a Helm, so probably only should be usable by Barbarians, Clerics, Dwarf Fighters, Fighters, and Paladin.

It is a very flavorful idea though. And I'm all in favor of Fighters getting some spells Just needs some work.

Alternatively, drop the penalty idea, flip the flavor from flaming to holy, and maybe make the standard actions free, and it would be an interesting approach to a Cleric class Relic.

Arnold wrote:

Mike Steele wrote: The only bonus the Legendary actually gives beyond the Relic is to use a polymorph potion without turning it in, and as of now that seems like it will almost never be used because the Elemental polymorph damage wheel is better than any of the potions.

It's perfect for you because you've stated many times that you don't build legendary tokens. Folks with the relic basically have it made in the shade..

I'm not advocating a change for me in particular, more to take an underpowered Class Legendary and power it up a bit.

It wouldn't be hard at all to modify the Legendary Druid token to be more in line with the other Class Legendaries, since the majority of the abilities are listed in TokenDB and not on the token itself. Some possibilities are an additional bonus to hit and/or damage when polymorphed, the ability to polymorph into more than one form per room (like it originally was designed), or making the Air Elemental form flying.

Greg wrote: Not sure where else to put this, so I'll try here.

Could there be unique proxy tokens for relic and legendary weapons? Clearly state that it's a proxy and have the corresponding damage wheel on the outside? It would be nice for people not to have to put a $1500 token into a puck where it might be left behind.

Mtg allows proxies for things like Moxen. So long as you can show the actual one in your collection, you can use the proxy in the deck that might suffer wear from play or be forgotten if an opponent takes control of it. I suspect something similar would set people's minds at ease.

Include one or two of these when you transmute a weapon.

Does MTG allow proxies in official tournaments? It's been quite awhile since I've done one, so I'm just curious.

One risk I see from your proposal is someone that gets one or more proxies with their Legendary token might sell a Proxie to someone who thinks that they can use it in a game, or they might sell their Legendary and try to keep using the Proxie.

Mike Steele wrote:

Arnold wrote:

Mike Steele wrote: The only bonus the Legendary actually gives beyond the Relic is to use a polymorph potion without turning it in, and as of now that seems like it will almost never be used because the Elemental polymorph damage wheel is better than any of the potions.

It's perfect for you because you've stated many times that you don't build legendary tokens. Folks with the relic basically have it made in the shade..

I'm not advocating a change for me in particular, more to take an underpowered Class Legendary and power it up a bit.

It wouldn't be hard at all to modify the Legendary Druid token to be more in line with the other Class Legendaries, since the majority of the abilities are listed in TokenDB and not on the token itself. Some possibilities are an additional bonus to hit and/or damage when polymorphed, the ability to polymorph into more than one form per room (like it originally was designed), or making the Air Elemental form flying.

How about this... once the class cards get adjusted, then we talk about whether there is a need to adjust the Legendaries.

Fiddy wrote:

Mike Steele wrote:

Arnold wrote:

Mike Steele wrote: The only bonus the Legendary actually gives beyond the Relic is to use a polymorph potion without turning it in, and as of now that seems like it will almost never be used because the Elemental polymorph damage wheel is better than any of the potions.

It's perfect for you because you've stated many times that you don't build legendary tokens. Folks with the relic basically have it made in the shade..

I'm not advocating a change for me in particular, more to take an underpowered Class Legendary and power it up a bit.

It wouldn't be hard at all to modify the Legendary Druid token to be more in line with the other Class Legendaries, since the majority of the abilities are listed in TokenDB and not on the token itself. Some possibilities are an additional bonus to hit and/or damage when polymorphed, the ability to polymorph into more than one form per room (like it originally was designed), or making the Air Elemental form flying.

How about this... once the class cards get adjusted, then we talk about whether there is a need to adjust the Legendaries.

+1

I thought about this last year with the second round of class tokens. After they are all made and/or the class cards are changed then the class tokens can be adjusted to make them all the desired power plus you will have some meta data for what was good/bad on them. Like if no one is using the animal companion or scrolls on the ranger or polymorph tokens with the Druid etc then it probably should be changed imo