TOPIC: Transmute Token Ideas

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Bob Chasan wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote: What I would like in the wizard transmute, something along the lines of:

Legendary -
May perform two of: cast a spell from the card, use a wand, use a scroll as a standard action. 2/combat
Wands and scrolls benefit from your spell damage bonus this round 1/combat
Something wacky along the lines of animal friend or rangers can read scrolls.

Relic:
May perform two of: cast a spell, use a wand, read a scroll as a standard action 1/combat
Wands and scrolls benefit from your spell damage bonus this round 2/game

UR mainhand - +2 Wand of Power, +2 to damage spells, you may cast a level 0 Spell as a scroll As a free action 1/room without marking it off. For wizards only the spell is not cast as a scroll. - Bard, Cleric, Druid, Wizardd
(This is a wand, not a weapon, but you don’t turn it in)

Relic recipe optionally takes Medallion of a Mystic Mouth as an alternative to +2 wand of power.

I just really HATE the idea of tying consumables into the Legendary. I don't like it for the animal friend and I would doubly not like it for low damage, can't be modified scrolls. For 5th level wizard, the only spells that do less damage than nearly every scroll in existence is the Zero level cantrips. So having to use something that does inferior damage doesn't seem like a benefit to me. Just about the same for wands although there are a few tokens that can increase the damage.

Not going to change your mind - but the proposed token does also let you cast 2 spells from the card as a standard if that’s what you’re about.

The proposed tokens also let the spell bonus apply to scrolls and wands, which means they will scale with the wizards gear and outdamage the level 0 spells in many cases.

Maybe it would include a Druid Legendary like clause that would let you use a scroll or wand without turning it in 1/frequency

OK Cool I didn't get that from the initial post. I would be more OK with allowing spell bonus to apply to scrolls and wands and able to cast 2 spells per round. I still have the same reservations but more onboard.

Bob Chasan wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote: What I would like in the wizard transmute, something along the lines of:

Legendary -
May perform two of: cast a spell from the card, use a wand, use a scroll as a standard action. 2/combat
Wands and scrolls benefit from your spell damage bonus this round 1/combat
Something wacky along the lines of animal friend or rangers can read scrolls.

Relic:
May perform two of: cast a spell, use a wand, read a scroll as a standard action 1/combat
Wands and scrolls benefit from your spell damage bonus this round 2/game

UR mainhand - +2 Wand of Power, +2 to damage spells, you may cast a level 0 Spell as a scroll As a free action 1/room without marking it off. For wizards only the spell is not cast as a scroll. - Bard, Cleric, Druid, Wizardd
(This is a wand, not a weapon, but you don’t turn it in)

Relic recipe optionally takes Medallion of a Mystic Mouth as an alternative to +2 wand of power.

I just really HATE the idea of tying consumables into the Legendary. I don't like it for the animal friend and I would doubly not like it for low damage, can't be modified scrolls. For 5th level wizard, the only spells that do less damage than nearly every scroll in existence is the Zero level cantrips. So having to use something that does inferior damage doesn't seem like a benefit to me. Just about the same for wands although there are a few tokens that can increase the damage.

Seconded. I hated seeing that on the legendary last year. A legendary item should absolutely not need consumables of any sort to get the 'maximum' benefit out of it.

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Endgame wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote: UR mainhand - +2 Wand of Power, +2 to damage spells, you may cast a level 0 Spell as a scroll As a free action 1/room without marking it off. For wizards only the spell is not cast as a scroll. - Bard, Cleric, Druid, Wizardd
(This is a wand, not a weapon, but you don’t turn it in)

Making it a wand, but not a wand, is a strange combo that is probably not ideal ongoing rule wise. Just reprint the +2 staff of power and modify the power to not act as a scroll?

I’m trying to make it synergize with the proposed relic and legendary, that key off wands, and make a usable token by more than just wizards.

1/room is required to allow healers to use it without getting infinite life outside of combat.

I do see the awkwardness - maybe it could be made more “wandy” somehow.

FYI - I cleaned up the UR +2 X of Power thing a bit in the original proposal, and made it a weapon with an ability that counts as a wand.

isauteikisa wrote:

Bob Chasan wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote: What I would like in the wizard transmute, something along the lines of:

Legendary -
May perform two of: cast a spell from the card, use a wand, use a scroll as a standard action. 2/combat
Wands and scrolls benefit from your spell damage bonus this round 1/combat
Something wacky along the lines of animal friend or rangers can read scrolls.

Relic:
May perform two of: cast a spell, use a wand, read a scroll as a standard action 1/combat
Wands and scrolls benefit from your spell damage bonus this round 2/game

UR mainhand - +2 Wand of Power, +2 to damage spells, you may cast a level 0 Spell as a scroll As a free action 1/room without marking it off. For wizards only the spell is not cast as a scroll. - Bard, Cleric, Druid, Wizardd
(This is a wand, not a weapon, but you don’t turn it in)

Relic recipe optionally takes Medallion of a Mystic Mouth as an alternative to +2 wand of power.

I just really HATE the idea of tying consumables into the Legendary. I don't like it for the animal friend and I would doubly not like it for low damage, can't be modified scrolls. For 5th level wizard, the only spells that do less damage than nearly every scroll in existence is the Zero level cantrips. So having to use something that does inferior damage doesn't seem like a benefit to me. Just about the same for wands although there are a few tokens that can increase the damage.

Seconded. I hated seeing that on the legendary last year. A legendary item should absolutely not need consumables of any sort to get the 'maximum' benefit out of it.

The maximum benefit of weapon Legendaries requires using consumables.

isauteikisa wrote:

Bob Chasan wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote: What I would like in the wizard transmute, something along the lines of:

Legendary -
May perform two of: cast a spell from the card, use a wand, use a scroll as a standard action. 2/combat
Wands and scrolls benefit from your spell damage bonus this round 1/combat
Something wacky along the lines of animal friend or rangers can read scrolls.

Relic:
May perform two of: cast a spell, use a wand, read a scroll as a standard action 1/combat
Wands and scrolls benefit from your spell damage bonus this round 2/game

UR mainhand - +2 Wand of Power, +2 to damage spells, you may cast a level 0 Spell as a scroll As a free action 1/room without marking it off. For wizards only the spell is not cast as a scroll. - Bard, Cleric, Druid, Wizardd
(This is a wand, not a weapon, but you don’t turn it in)

Relic recipe optionally takes Medallion of a Mystic Mouth as an alternative to +2 wand of power.

I just really HATE the idea of tying consumables into the Legendary. I don't like it for the animal friend and I would doubly not like it for low damage, can't be modified scrolls. For 5th level wizard, the only spells that do less damage than nearly every scroll in existence is the Zero level cantrips. So having to use something that does inferior damage doesn't seem like a benefit to me. Just about the same for wands although there are a few tokens that can increase the damage.

Seconded. I hated seeing that on the legendary last year. A legendary item should absolutely not need consumables of any sort to get the 'maximum' benefit out of it.

I tend to think of those abilities as "Here are some things you can do also, if you want" rather than "just imagine what you could have done had we not put this ability here instead!"

I think there is a difference between designing a token that allows for different playstyles, including ones that use consumables, and designing a token that requires one to use consumables. I'd be against a class Legendary that provided no benefits to people not using consumables. I'd also be against a blanket design rule that no class Legendaries could boost people who use consumables.

Endgame wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote: UR mainhand - +2 Wand of Power, +2 to damage spells, you may cast a level 0 Spell as a scroll As a free action 1/room without marking it off. For wizards only the spell is not cast as a scroll. - Bard, Cleric, Druid, Wizardd
(This is a wand, not a weapon, but you don’t turn it in)

Making it a wand, but not a wand, is a strange combo that is probably not ideal ongoing rule wise. Just reprint the +2 staff of power and modify the power to not act as a scroll?

Call it +2 Stave of Power

Harlax wrote:

Endgame wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote: UR mainhand - +2 Wand of Power, +2 to damage spells, you may cast a level 0 Spell as a scroll As a free action 1/room without marking it off. For wizards only the spell is not cast as a scroll. - Bard, Cleric, Druid, Wizardd
(This is a wand, not a weapon, but you don’t turn it in)

Making it a wand, but not a wand, is a strange combo that is probably not ideal ongoing rule wise. Just reprint the +2 staff of power and modify the power to not act as a scroll?

Call it +2 Stave of Power

Scepter?

Harlax wrote:

Endgame wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote: UR mainhand - +2 Wand of Power, +2 to damage spells, you may cast a level 0 Spell as a scroll As a free action 1/room without marking it off. For wizards only the spell is not cast as a scroll. - Bard, Cleric, Druid, Wizardd
(This is a wand, not a weapon, but you don’t turn it in)

Making it a wand, but not a wand, is a strange combo that is probably not ideal ongoing rule wise. Just reprint the +2 staff of power and modify the power to not act as a scroll?

Call it +2 Stave of Power

Would the idea be that you could cast a free level 0 with the Stave of power, switch to the staff of power for a free level 1, then switch to +5 staff of focus for the remainder of the room?

Endgame wrote:

Harlax wrote:

Endgame wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote: UR mainhand - +2 Wand of Power, +2 to damage spells, you may cast a level 0 Spell as a scroll As a free action 1/room without marking it off. For wizards only the spell is not cast as a scroll. - Bard, Cleric, Druid, Wizardd
(This is a wand, not a weapon, but you don’t turn it in)

Making it a wand, but not a wand, is a strange combo that is probably not ideal ongoing rule wise. Just reprint the +2 staff of power and modify the power to not act as a scroll?

Call it +2 Stave of Power

Would the idea be that you could cast a free level 0 with the Stave of power, switch to the staff of power for a free level 1, then switch to +5 staff of focus for the remainder of the room?

Switching weapons requires a free action, and you only get 1 FA a turn (you can't downgrade a SA to a FA and take 2 FAs instead of a SA and a FA).

So that line of play wouldn't work as it's 3 FAs (Wand/Rod of power use, switch to SoP, switch to Drake's) and a standard (use SoP).

With MMM, which fixes your hands when you use a wand as a FA, you could do SoP (standard)+ Wand/Rod of Power (free). Then next round you could use your FA to switch to Drake's before casting.

I would still like to see either the legendary have the ability to slide it as a spell against a static AC of 22 and the damage wheel being elemental types instead of damage numbers. A successful hit deals 0+spell damage bonus of the type indicated by the damage wheel.

Relic contains physical as one option, Legendary has Melee and Ranged as 2 of it's 6


I'd still want +8/+12 spell damage on the relic/legendary

And I'd definitely support either an upgraded mad evokers effect or an upgraded staff of power effect as it's final effect.


Giving it the SoP effect at relic/legendary would allow double dipping of free spells but the SoP only provides as a scroll effects so it's not really affecting damage output much

Arcanist Kolixela wrote: I would still like to see either the legendary have the ability to slide it as a spell against a static AC of 22 and the damage wheel being elemental types instead of damage numbers. A successful hit deals 0+spell damage bonus of the type indicated by the damage wheel.

Relic contains physical as one option, Legendary has Melee and Ranged as 2 of it's 6


I'd still want +8/+12 spell damage on the relic/legendary

And I'd definitely support either an upgraded mad evokers effect or an upgraded staff of power effect as it's final effect.


Giving it the SoP effect at relic/legendary would allow double dipping of free spells but the SoP only provides as a scroll effects so it's not really affecting damage output much

Is asking for that cantrip as a free action too much? Even half damage as a free action I still like it. Then the whole wand debate would be over.

Matthew Galambus wrote:

Arcanist Kolixela wrote: I would still like to see either the legendary have the ability to slide it as a spell against a static AC of 22 and the damage wheel being elemental types instead of damage numbers. A successful hit deals 0+spell damage bonus of the type indicated by the damage wheel.

Relic contains physical as one option, Legendary has Melee and Ranged as 2 of it's 6


I'd still want +8/+12 spell damage on the relic/legendary

And I'd definitely support either an upgraded mad evokers effect or an upgraded staff of power effect as it's final effect.


Giving it the SoP effect at relic/legendary would allow double dipping of free spells but the SoP only provides as a scroll effects so it's not really affecting damage output much

Is asking for that cantrip as a free action too much? Even half damage as a free action I still like it. Then the whole wand debate would be over.

I am unsure exactly what you are asking. Could you elaborate?