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TOPIC: Spolier Free Feedback for V1

Spolier Free Feedback for V1 5 months 1 week ago #61

Blaine Miller wrote:

jedibcg wrote: If combat was rolling a d20 instead of the d10+10, I think it would have slightly improved improved combat. The pregen fighter which would be used on normal gets a 20 for hit on a 2. I don't know what the highest on AC on normal was, (I don't think it was higher than 20) so only missing on 1 doesn't seem balanced right.
Pregen Barbarian and D Fighter are a +7 to hit, so they are missing 1, but getting 19+ on everything else).
Pregen Monk is a +6, so lowest possible hit on BOTH of their attacks is a 18.


In the 2 runs where I had a bard with the legendary lute, my Paladin Attack bonus was 17. Because of the D10+10 rolling, that meant that I was hitting (almost) every monster unless I rolled a 1. Like you said, if we continue down the digital road with this same style of combat system, I hope they switch to a natural D20 roll.

Another thing I noticed (and voiced at the end of my run) was that the DMs in the hotel seemed to have MUCH worse visual quality. This is probably due to hotel wifi, but it could be other bandwidth bottle-necking or just the quality of the computer they were running off of. The only run I had clear video on was my run with Brandon as the DM and it seemed like he was in the building. Hopefully, this can get ironed out before November, as there was a lot of cool stuff hidden throughout the dungeon that would have been fun to look at with any free time we had remaining.

Otherwise, I had a blast! I thought this was an excellent adaptation to the online space and I look forward to November!


You hit every monster in the run on a 2 with those bonuses

As to the DM thing it was caused by hotel wifi.

However it appears having the DMs on site was a 1 time thing to make sure they were easily accessible in the case of technical issues. It's expected they will be hosting from home for any future runs and should not have any latency issues from what I heard

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Last edit: by Arcanist Kolixela.

Spolier Free Feedback for V1 5 months 1 week ago #62

My group and I enjoyed the run a couple time. It was fun and kept the theme of working together as a team.

The coaching room aspect worked well. The coaches were clear in instructing in the best practices for virtual dungeons.
DMs did a good job as always.

The dungeon work was well done. It felt like what I normally expect from TD in terms of story, NPCs, DMs, and dungeon props.

The combats seemed slow. But that was to be expected. Attention can stray. People on mute or with less audible microphones made it challenging. But we overcame the challenges and had successful battles. The format was well done with the checks and dice rolls with the app. Kudos for the app upgrade.

The puzzles were well done. They were challenging. Especially the last one. The upgraded clue made much more sense over that of the Rogue clue.
Still, the puzzles were all cool and still allowed for group participating with different views to figure stuff out.

Minor change suggestions:

1. For NPC dialog, instead of a running ticket, I would display the dialog in set blocks, much like the scrolls. It might make for easier reading.

2. Post only the AC of the difficulty the party is running. Some confusion about what numbers could happen seeing more than 1.

3. For the in-between room portion, maybe post a banner saying as such so it's clear.
Note: The in-between video was still nice to see.

4. The success/fail notification and graphics did have some lag to them. I like trying to add all elements of TD. In this case I would say less is more. That is to say, with the notifications received in the midst of the puzzles. Might make lag less noticable.


Thank you to Jeff and Lori and everyone involved in bringing us TD. The effort I'm sure was no small feat.
THANK YOU!!!!
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Spolier Free Feedback for V1 5 months 1 week ago #63

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I enjoyed VTD much more than I thought I would. I thought the puzzles were fun and challenging, especially REDACTED. The combats also had interesting twists to them that made them interesting and challenging.

The sets overall looked great, and I loved the videos and other effects.

Loved the new memory tests - I really hope they keep them. DMs in real TD could easily have a little book of th new wizard symbols instead of a map of the planes. Maybe even print up a little book or spiral notebook with tabs that have all the symbols for wizards, cleric, druid, and bard?

Great idea to have someone in the epilogue "area" specifically to listen to parties' feedback, and then to set up a breakout room if they wanted to continue to chat.

I hope I get to see all of you in person next year!
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Spolier Free Feedback for V1 5 months 1 week ago #64

bpsymington wrote: I enjoyed VTD much more than I thought I would. I thought the puzzles were fun and challenging, especially REDACTED. The combats also had interesting twists to them that made them interesting and challenging.

The sets overall looked great, and I loved the videos and other effects.

Loved the new memory tests - I really hope they keep them. DMs in real TD could easily have a little book of th new wizard symbols instead of a map of the planes. Maybe even print up a little book or spiral notebook with tabs that have all the symbols for wizards, cleric, druid, and bard?

Great idea to have someone in the epilogue "area" specifically to listen to parties' feedback, and then to set up a breakout room if they wanted to continue to chat.

I hope I get to see all of you in person next year!


I agree with this suggestion. I understand the skill checks are varied to make the classes different but I honestly think all of the new class checks work very well and would take these over the beads and the planar chart any day (even having the chart fully memorized) It's just much more a test of actual memory vs memorization

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Spolier Free Feedback for V1 5 months 1 week ago #65

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Arcanist Kolixela wrote:

bpsymington wrote: I enjoyed VTD much more than I thought I would. I thought the puzzles were fun and challenging, especially REDACTED. The combats also had interesting twists to them that made them interesting and challenging.

The sets overall looked great, and I loved the videos and other effects.

Loved the new memory tests - I really hope they keep them. DMs in real TD could easily have a little book of th new wizard symbols instead of a map of the planes. Maybe even print up a little book or spiral notebook with tabs that have all the symbols for wizards, cleric, druid, and bard?

Great idea to have someone in the epilogue "area" specifically to listen to parties' feedback, and then to set up a breakout room if they wanted to continue to chat.

I hope I get to see all of you in person next year!


I agree with this suggestion. I understand the skill checks are varied to make the classes different but I honestly think all of the new class checks work very well and would take these over the beads and the planar chart any day (even having the chart fully memorized) It's just much more a test of actual memory vs memorization


I loved memorizing the symbols based on some aspect of the type of magic that was named.
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Spolier Free Feedback for V1 5 months 1 week ago #66

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A suggestion that DMs on our runs thought was a good idea - my NM party did so much damage to monster #1 that I asked the DM to start the next combat in reverse order. He did that, and then other combats he would start in the middle, etc. It made sure everyone got to have a turn in combat. This is an issue in VTD, not so much in A(nalog)/P(hysical)/R(eal) TD.
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Spolier Free Feedback for V1 5 months 1 week ago #67

bpsymington wrote: A suggestion that DMs on our runs thought was a good idea - my NM party did so much damage to monster #1 that I asked the DM to start the next combat in reverse order. He did that, and then other combats he would start in the middle, etc. It made sure everyone got to have a turn in combat. This is an issue in VTD, not so much in A(nalog)/P(hysical)/R(eal) TD.


This is just a byproduct of the damage calculations being done by the players not the DM. If all the attack rolls and damages propagated on the DMs screen it'd go 2-3x as fast but that would require WAY MORE coding to implement something like that

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Spolier Free Feedback for V1 5 months 1 week ago #68

Definitely have things to say but would be spoilers. Without spoilers:
  • Healing was much harder due to the fact that you can't really peel off and interact between turns the way you can in a live TD run.
  • The puzzles felt easier but that's because everyone had the same viewpoint so you didn't have to get people in line to the 'aha' moment. But that's not a bad thing. Overall, I think these went real well, though the group-wide damage on attempts PLUS push was a little harsh.
  • The audio and text was a godsend. No more blown out speakers trying to compete with general ambiance + other groups cheers and stuff. Easier to understand the story and not waste time.
  • Combat definitely felt underwhelming, for spoiler reasons and not. Some way to make combat more interesting would be great. Had a couple newbies quite upset that they only got one hit in the entire run, due to luck and the short length of combat.
  • The intro video and overall production quality was great. You all did an incredible job turning this into a successful virtual version in such a short timespan. So much kudos.
  • The app could definitely use some love, mostly on a UX/UI front. The backend is pretty damn good (shoutout Cranston!).

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Spolier Free Feedback for V1 5 months 1 week ago #69

The App was modified within an extremely short amount of time to convert it from a pure character builder into a complete companion app. All done by Cranston. The fact that it actually happened in time for VTD1 is truly outstanding

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Spolier Free Feedback for V1 5 months 1 week ago #70

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Arcanist Kolixela wrote: The App was modified within an extremely short amount of time to convert it from a pure character builder into a complete companion app. All done by Cranston. The fact that it actually happened in time for VTD1 is truly outstanding


True dat!
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Spolier Free Feedback for V1 5 months 1 week ago #71

The run was great for what could be done virtually and making it work with players with differing amounts of technical knowledge. My one worry is for tokens. As a collector and someone who is always working to get better gear so I can feel more powerful on runs, no one cared about tokens this time around, even more than usual. I understand the idea of “if you cheat, you are only cheating yourself”. But why trade around, save up for, and basically work to get that special token for a couple extra points in whatever…if you can just say you have it. It seemed like every run I did this time around everyone had everything. It is possible this was true, but really? Once the DM asks, do you have this token that allows you to do this? The answer from everyone is yes.
Also, it seems TD is at war with tokens. Oh, tokens allow you to hit incorporeal? Well now all of our monsters will be ethereal and that is different, so you miss. At least that was the ruling from the DM on one of the runs…it seems that was flip flopping through the weekend. Sure, don’t make it too easy, if everyone can hit 100% then you need to change it to add difficulty…but one thing that could be done instead is to verify their tokens to make sure that everyone in the party actually CAN do that.
To me it seems a lot of these issues can simply be fixed by going over all equipped tokens with players before a run. Sure it takes time, but I would even be willing to give an extra 12 minutes for that, even if it isn’t scheduled, just open the room early for those that need extra help or have a lot of gear. You wouldn’t even need to verify every single token or spoil anything. The coach could simply look at all tokens, but to themselves look for specific ones. Like if they know on the run there are constructs…does the player have a way to crit constructs… and note that down… do they have psychic ability…verify the tokens and note it. That way the entire party doesn’t just say they are full on jedi masters.
This will keep the value of tokens alive. If no one needs them because they can just say they have them, or if they serve no purpose because rules are made that make them powerless, then I am worried that they will start to become throwaway trash.

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Spolier Free Feedback for V1 5 months 1 week ago #72

Ken Penland wrote: The run was great for what could be done virtually and making it work with players with differing amounts of technical knowledge. My one worry is for tokens. As a collector and someone who is always working to get better gear so I can feel more powerful on runs, no one cared about tokens this time around, even more than usual. I understand the idea of “if you cheat, you are only cheating yourself”. But why trade around, save up for, and basically work to get that special token for a couple extra points in whatever…if you can just say you have it. It seemed like every run I did this time around everyone had everything. It is possible this was true, but really? Once the DM asks, do you have this token that allows you to do this? The answer from everyone is yes.
Also, it seems TD is at war with tokens. Oh, tokens allow you to hit incorporeal? Well now all of our monsters will be ethereal and that is different, so you miss. At least that was the ruling from the DM on one of the runs…it seems that was flip flopping through the weekend. Sure, don’t make it too easy, if everyone can hit 100% then you need to change it to add difficulty…but one thing that could be done instead is to verify their tokens to make sure that everyone in the party actually CAN do that.
To me it seems a lot of these issues can simply be fixed by going over all equipped tokens with players before a run. Sure it takes time, but I would even be willing to give an extra 12 minutes for that, even if it isn’t scheduled, just open the room early for those that need extra help or have a lot of gear. You wouldn’t even need to verify every single token or spoil anything. The coach could simply look at all tokens, but to themselves look for specific ones. Like if they know on the run there are constructs…does the player have a way to crit constructs… and note that down… do they have psychic ability…verify the tokens and note it. That way the entire party doesn’t just say they are full on jedi masters.
This will keep the value of tokens alive. If no one needs them because they can just say they have them, or if they serve no purpose because rules are made that make them powerless, then I am worried that they will start to become throwaway trash.


For what it's worth on the war on tokens thing.

I do definitely hear what you are saying about tokens being invalidated. It's been a big gripe of mine over the years. I was happy this year tho to find monsters and puzzles doing actively resistable elemetnal damage. A very positive change from previous years where burning youself with a torch somehow inflicted eldritch damage.

As to the incorporeal/ethereal thing that was you DM unfortunately.
I heard reports of that issue from people on my runs over the time. But in 11 runs I never experienced that.
I am highly of the opinion that a single DM chose to rule it that way. (which should never happen) and that was simply an outlier and a bad luck on that run.

As to validating each token build by having them all laid out...

I hold the tokens for my entire group. I handle the treasure, I do the transmutes, I choose the upgrades.
I know MULTIPLE other platers who are in the same situation.

I also hold 12 complete 25+ token builds, best in slot rare for all 12 classes, that I loan to any player who doesn't already have better.
I have them in token holders. I have them in the exact order of my character creator printout. I know what order they are expected to be in when in that token holder. I carry a pre-filled character sheet with all of the builds precalculated that the coach can simply add to their existing party card.

Also.

I live in Arizona.
Cenobian Kai lives in New Jersey
Steven and Alexis live in Indiana.
Lokin lives 20 miles away from me in Arizona.

Again I hold and maintain the entire token collection for my party.

Each of our builds is 30+ tokens.

Having the DM verify 150 tokens in each coaching room just isn't feasible.


As to the Zoom meetings. It's a licensing thing. Each additional 12 minute window they add requires another host and another zoom account. That's another active expense for the run. Financially it would be a poor decision to double the cost of your coaches by validating every token of all 10 players. That's why they only really examine the specific ultra rare ones that completely change gameplay or add additional physical treasure.

Plus the party card is already stacked with information to record, so adding another piece to validate is rough.

And validating a token exists during a combat is complicated and time consuming. Both are unfortunately bad for the already long running combat rounds.

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