TOPIC: 2020 Transmuted Beta Images

What is Fury?

I think the Monk transmute is basically OK. Tacking in Dark Disciple Shirt I like.

I am worried that skilled monks, monks with helpful flanking rogues, etc. will stun lock monsters leading to no-fun combats.

How about change the legendary stun effect to proc more often but still be limited:

Stunning Fist on 18-20, no stun immunity, 2/room, must declare using ability before slide

?

Ranger legendary sees pretty perfect.

If I had my druthers I'd change it to "can use any cleric usable scroll or wand" 2/game rather than the current can use any scrolls 2/game.

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Kirk Bauer wrote: 5) Holy Avengers: big question is: does the guard ability stack with the Amulet of Guarding? In other words, with the +5 Holy Avenger, can the Paladin guard a total of 3 other players? If so I think that's a problem. Either way I see this as more powerful than all of the other Legendaries. For the other three classes, they have to give up the most powerful slot in the game. The +5 Holy Avenger actually frees up that slot instead. It is also a great weapon. And you can also swap weapons. So basically you get a (1) great weapon, (2) free up a neck slot, (3) doesn't really take a slot if you don't want it to, and some other cool effects. It might just be too many.

In other words, for the other classes they have to use up their neck slot for their Legendary (as designed). For the Paladin, they effectively have a slotless Legendary that gives you a +5 to-hit and allows you to use it or any other melee weapon.

Another question: if the Paladin switches weapons do they lose these stated abilities?

PS - I'm not saying we should change the slot. I like the +5 Holy Avenger. I just think it might need to be less powerful than the others to make up for it being effectively slotless.

I think the Avenger needs to be toned WAY down based on this line of reasoning, it is:

1. A slotless Amulet of Guarding. (neck slot UR)
2. A slotless +5 to saves. (Back slot Relic/Legendary)
3. A bunch of other stuff

Is there any doubt that if we printed a slotless legendary token that said:

+5 to saves, You may equip an additional neck item that does not effect the party card or expand slots.

It would be the best legendary token ever printed?

Because what this is is better than that.

Creating mythical tokens and then arguing against them is not exactly a fair comparison.

The token isn't slotless. Period. It requires being equipped in the Melee mainhand slot, preventing the use of a 2 handed weapon, or an existing legendary with a higher damage cap (and slightly higher average). Doing so means a Paladin can't equip (without cheating of course) a 2 handed melee weapon that is much better.

+5 Saves is a lot. It would be reasonable to drop down to +2/+3.

Adjusting power levels is fine. Let's not take it back to where we had it in the L+L section, which is essentially useless, particularly if Guard doesn't stack.

Edit:

Matthew Hayward wrote: What is Fury?

No one seems to know

Matthew Hayward wrote: What is Fury?

The ability to play a Lute of Fury. Finally Barbarians can make music!

Wade Schwendemann wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote: What is Fury?

No one seems to know

Glad I'm not the only one LOL

Fiddy wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote: What is Fury?

The ability to play a Lute of Fury. Finally Barbarians can make music!

Yes! Bardbarian!

Also, the lute is a single use 2 handed weapon, one can smash during the performance (1/room or 1/game)

Wade Schwendemann wrote:

Fiddy wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote: What is Fury?

The ability to play a Lute of Fury. Finally Barbarians can make music!

Yes! Bardbarian!

Also, the lute is a single use 2 handed weapon, one can smash during the performance (1/room or 1/game)

Unfortunately, the way the Barbarian wields the Lute is by swinging the Bard that is holding onto it.

Wade Schwendemann wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Kirk Bauer wrote: 5) Holy Avengers: big question is: does the guard ability stack with the Amulet of Guarding? In other words, with the +5 Holy Avenger, can the Paladin guard a total of 3 other players? If so I think that's a problem. Either way I see this as more powerful than all of the other Legendaries. For the other three classes, they have to give up the most powerful slot in the game. The +5 Holy Avenger actually frees up that slot instead. It is also a great weapon. And you can also swap weapons. So basically you get a (1) great weapon, (2) free up a neck slot, (3) doesn't really take a slot if you don't want it to, and some other cool effects. It might just be too many.

In other words, for the other classes they have to use up their neck slot for their Legendary (as designed). For the Paladin, they effectively have a slotless Legendary that gives you a +5 to-hit and allows you to use it or any other melee weapon.

Another question: if the Paladin switches weapons do they lose these stated abilities?

PS - I'm not saying we should change the slot. I like the +5 Holy Avenger. I just think it might need to be less powerful than the others to make up for it being effectively slotless.

I think the Avenger needs to be toned WAY down based on this line of reasoning, it is:

1. A slotless Amulet of Guarding. (neck slot UR)
2. A slotless +5 to saves. (Back slot Relic/Legendary)
3. A bunch of other stuff

Is there any doubt that if we printed a slotless legendary token that said:

+5 to saves, You may equip an additional neck item that does not effect the party card or expand slots.

It would be the best legendary token ever printed?

Because what this is is better than that.

Creating mythical tokens and then arguing against them is not exactly a fair comparison.

The token isn't slotless. Period. It requires being equipped in the Melee mainhand slot, preventing the use of a 2 handed weapon, or an existing legendary with a higher damage cap (and slightly higher average). Doing so means a Paladin can't equip (without cheating of course) a 2 handed melee weapon that is much better.

+5 Saves is a lot. It would be reasonable to drop down to +2/+3.

Adjusting power levels is fine. Let's not take it back to where we had it in the L+L section, which is essentially useless, particularly if Guard doesn't stack.

Edit:

Matthew Hayward wrote: What is Fury?

No one seems to know

I'm sorry you didn't like my illustration - I'm trying to clarify the point. I can do it purely in terms if the proposed token:

By equipping this token during character building, you get +5 to saves on the character builder. This is better than a relic level back slot, and it's been tacked on as an afterthought.

By game rules, you are not required to wield this weapon at any point in the dungeon, so you can indeed switch into any weapon you prefer. You could switch to avernon's deathcleaver, and you could then use it with the new expanded crit range bracers.

Technically you lose the +5 to saves if you do, but it will still be included on the party card. This puts the paladin and the dm in the annoying position of having to talk about saves which uses up time and making the dm remember to do subtraction.

You are right that you have to choose between the +5 to saves during coaching and and party card two handed buffs.

This is simply too good. If this weapon did nothing else but be a decent +5 weapon and confer +5 to saves it would be too good - especially with a Cloak of Shadowskin in print. Instead it also comes with a variety of other Effects, one of which is a neck slot UR.

In regards to the save bonus, I know its awesome, but maybe its more in line power wise if it reads: Guarded ally saves when paladin saves.

Fiddy wrote: I still find it odd that the Legendaries aren't named after anyone.

Me too. I hope they eventually are.

Fiddy wrote: I still find it odd that the Legendaries aren't named after anyone.

Congratulations Fiddy!!! One of them is named after yew!