TOPIC: 2020 Transmuted Beta Images

Please tone down the holy avenger. It is likely the most overpowered item ever introduced. It is the equivalent to 3 legendaries combined.

The auto kill regardless of damage rolled is a unique ability no other item has. Combine that with the damage and an extra guarding and lower the damage by 1 and it is still the best legendary weapon.

Fred

Fiddy wrote: I still find it odd that the Legendaries aren't named after anyone.

Now that you mention it, that is kind of odd. Event if they are not named after player characters, it would be neat to have them named.

Fiddy wrote: I still find it odd that the Legendaries aren't named after anyone.

It's pretty common for legendaries to get their proper names very late in the development process. We're still in beta, so I wouldn't bet on the current names sticking.

Milambus (Jake) wrote: +1 Psychic Power use: Cool, an extra 4hp heal or other effect. Would be nice if the Necklace granted Psychic also, so monk didn't have to equip other tokens to make this power mean something, but its fine as is.

There's a slotless UR that grants Psychic being added as well, so I can see the assumption of "anybody with the $$$ to make this Legendary would be able to get that should they so choose".

BTW, I don't see the "Animal Friend" ability listed anywhere for those who can't see the previous token threads:

Animal Friend (for Ranger): A Ranger with the BIG DADDY Pendant can use a Potion of Polymorph to summon forth a spiritual animal friend. It can't be dispelled or damaged. When attacking with a 2H Bow, the Ranger can put any polymorph token into the second slider and slide both as a Ranger normally would during combat. The damage done by the spiritual animal friend is only the amount shown on the token...and not modified by anything. The token is also consumed at the end of combat like a potion normally would be at that time.

Fred K wrote: Please tone down the holy avenger. It is likely the most overpowered item ever introduced. It is the equivalent to 3 legendaries combined.

The auto kill regardless of damage rolled is a unique ability no other item has. Combine that with the damage and an extra guarding and lower the damage by 1 and it is still the best legendary weapon.

Fred

The autokill isn’t a big deal, it’s only for one type of monster that we may only face once in a dungeon every 2 to 4 years. I’m not sure before E3 we will face one in the full story arc. I would strip the auto kill completely along with sacrifice if it takes it to keep the other abilities.

Wade Schwendemann wrote: Did I miss what fury does somewhere?

I really hope the paladin legendary stacks with AoG. It is a choice to either guard someone else or buff your stats as a Paladin. Please, dont take that choice away. As a team game, I want to be able to guard as much as I can, and I am fine being a weaker damage dealer as a result.
If a different ability has to go to make this happen, I could live with it.

The dps of the avengers is out of line (only .5 less than Viper Fang and Welfors - which has no special powers). We can't adjust the DPS now because it was based on the +2 and no one caught it. Paladin's don't have to give up their neck slot to use their class legendary. I don't feel that the Legendary guard should stack with the AoG (Neck) item - a pally guarding 3 people is too OP. I can support changes to this just not adding more and 3 guards. The +5 saves just makes this beyond OP. +5 saves should be +5 dmg vs. Undead - more thematic.

Ed

Great idea to solving extra rage and lay on hands used. Just teach coaches some drawing skills. Letting them sharpie in boxes equal to the bonus uses of rage/LoH. That would solve the issue of players trying to remember. Shouldn’t take more than a 15 seconds to accomplish.

MasterED wrote:

Wade Schwendemann wrote: Did I miss what fury does somewhere?

I really hope the paladin legendary stacks with AoG. It is a choice to either guard someone else or buff your stats as a Paladin. Please, dont take that choice away. As a team game, I want to be able to guard as much as I can, and I am fine being a weaker damage dealer as a result.
If a different ability has to go to make this happen, I could live with it.

The dps of the avengers is out of line (only .5 less than Viper Fang and Welfors - which has no special powers). We can't adjust the DPS now because it was based on the +2 and no one caught it. Paladin's don't have to give up their neck slot to use their class legendary. I don't feel that the Legendary guard should stack with the AoG (Neck) item - a pally guarding 3 people is too OP. I can support changes to this just not adding more and 3 guards. The +5 saves just makes this beyond OP. +5 saves should be +5 dmg vs. Undead - more thematic.

Ed

As Guard is the ability most closely associated with Paladin in TD, and definitely the most useful of those on the weapon before this current iteration, I would say that it should stay.

I would also submit that guarding people solely in melee is not that OP, as there are several scenarios where it does nothing, even in melee fights. The Frost Giants and the Red Scrael are two recent examples. That doesn't include the range only fights where Guard is useless, or all the AoE that has been coming our way recently.

In order of usefulness I would rank the abilities
1. Saves
2. Guard
3. Lay on Hands
4. Sacrifice
5. Auto Kill Evil Outsiders

The Auto kill is baked in from the +2, and is probably why we shouldn't be designing tokens in separate years in the future.

Saves are great. If they need to be reduced to +2/+3, that would be fine. If they were to go away, I would go with +3 damage to all evil creatures, not just undead. Ranger favored enemy gets forgotten often, this would as well.

Guard should stack. I think I made my case for why it isn't OP in the first place, but even if it is, the decision whether to give up the neck slot for an additional guard should be made by the paladin player, not by the rules. A lot of Paladin players picked up the Amulet of Guarding after consternation about whether to use it or not. I don't think we should be making this 2017 UR token irrelevant at the higher levels. Some won't use it in the neck slot as is, but please don't take that choice away.

Lay on Hands was a nice surprise. Having the ability to contribute more as a healer is fun. Having additional healing for the party is fun. I like this quite a bit, though I don't know how we will track it easily.

Sacrifice is a nice to have. I would say I have seen it used once in the main dungeon, but it was on the 8 token run. Grind, Horde, Raid, that's a different story. I like the ability, and whether the intent of this power is to have it allow you to use it an additional time or to save 2 other players at once, I don't think it will come up, but I do like the different way of thinking.

The average damage is also not really changeable, but I would submit that average is less important than highest value, particularly at the legendary level of the game.

MasterED wrote:

Wade Schwendemann wrote: Did I miss what fury does somewhere?

I really hope the paladin legendary stacks with AoG. It is a choice to either guard someone else or buff your stats as a Paladin. Please, dont take that choice away. As a team game, I want to be able to guard as much as I can, and I am fine being a weaker damage dealer as a result.
If a different ability has to go to make this happen, I could live with it.

The dps of the avengers is out of line (only .5 less than Viper Fang and Welfors - which has no special powers). We can't adjust the DPS now because it was based on the +2 and no one caught it. Paladin's don't have to give up their neck slot to use their class legendary. I don't feel that the Legendary guard should stack with the AoG (Neck) item - a pally guarding 3 people is too OP. I can support changes to this just not adding more and 3 guards. The +5 saves just makes this beyond OP. +5 saves should be +5 dmg vs. Undead - more thematic.

Ed

I would say the Viper Strike Fang set bonus makes it better than just what it shows, it’s also basically the rogue and monk legendary weapon since it bonuses them up extra above all other users.

The wizards effectively have there own legendary weapon Drake’s +5 Staff of Focus. So legendary weapon and legendary focus ring on one token together.

Druid and Cleric share Drue’s +5 Baton of Focus and it has just a slightly worse damage wheel than the Holy avenger. So legendary weapon and legendary focus ring on one token together.

Compared to other +5 weapons combat wise the Holy avenger is nothing special. And on nothing special class legendary weapons adding a second legendary level ability is not unprecedented.

Still not a fan of the ranger legendary. Making a full 3 of the effects revolve around consumables seems bad on the capstone item for the class.

Kirk Bauer wrote: 5) Holy Avengers: big question is: does the guard ability stack with the Amulet of Guarding? In other words, with the +5 Holy Avenger, can the Paladin guard a total of 3 other players? If so I think that's a problem. Either way I see this as more powerful than all of the other Legendaries. For the other three classes, they have to give up the most powerful slot in the game. The +5 Holy Avenger actually frees up that slot instead. It is also a great weapon. And you can also swap weapons. So basically you get a (1) great weapon, (2) free up a neck slot, (3) doesn't really take a slot if you don't want it to, and some other cool effects. It might just be too many.

In other words, for the other classes they have to use up their neck slot for their Legendary (as designed). For the Paladin, they effectively have a slotless Legendary that gives you a +5 to-hit and allows you to use it or any other melee weapon.

Another question: if the Paladin switches weapons do they lose these stated abilities?

PS - I'm not saying we should change the slot. I like the +5 Holy Avenger. I just think it might need to be less powerful than the others to make up for it being effectively slotless.

I think the Avenger needs to be toned WAY down based on this line of reasoning, it is:

1. A slotless Amulet of Guarding. (neck slot UR)
2. A slotless +5 to saves. (Back slot Relic/Legendary)
3. A bunch of other stuff

Is there any doubt that if we printed a slotless legendary token that said:

+5 to saves, You may equip an additional neck item that does not effect the party card or expand slots.

It would be the best legendary token ever printed?

Because what this is is better than that.

Matt wrote: Savior stone i'm guessing is instantaneous/use automatically vs potion deaths door which takes an action of someone else to res someone and then depending on how the round falls may immediately be killed again. Ie PoDD used on person and that person isn't healed before monster attack, monster attacks that person and their dead again? Vs Savior stone i think can be used in response during the monster's attack/turn.

PoDD can't heal everything. It can restore you to life if your body is present and sorta OK.

Savior Stone can bring you back from anything, because it prevents whatever killed out.

Disintegration, petrification, banished to another plane, etc.