Welcome, Guest
Username: Password: Remember me

TOPIC: 2020 Rare Beta Images

2020 Rare Beta Images 4 years 8 months ago #37

Boilerplate wrote:

Brad Mortensen wrote:

Wayne Rhodes wrote: Why did the wand damage drop to 7?
We already have wands that do 8 and it’s not breaking the game. I would like it to be restored to 8 damage so it matches the last few years wands.


I think the thought was that there are monsters who resist almost every elemental type of damage. To date there is nothing that resists force, but at least one monster (I think) has been vulnerable to it, so those considerations make a Force wand more powerful than any other type.


I don’t think damage resistance should be a factor when it comes to setting wand damage. I’ve been using a wand every combat round for the last three years and have never had a resistance problem. Since I generally use current year wands, my theory is that the dungeons aren’t designed to nullify a consumable that was issued that year. (Would be pretty cruel to have people invest in rare consumables from the current set only to nullify them by design.) So because all of the prior elemental wands were not subject to resistance in the year of issue, I don’t think we should dock damage from a force wand that is not going to be resisted either.

Also, given how badly wands were nerfed last year, don’t nerf our best consumable this year.

And don’t make wand users and DMs have to keep track of which wands do how much damage. Rare should always be eight.

Keep it simple. Eight is great.


I agree with 'keep it simple'. When playing wizard, i just bring a handful of wands and grab one at random each combat. Only if i know the monster will resist what i grabbed will i fish for something else.
this is not a signature.
The topic has been locked.

2020 Rare Beta Images 4 years 8 months ago #38

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Wayne Rhodes wrote:

Wade Schwendemann wrote:

Wayne Rhodes wrote:

James J Krot wrote: Still think the amulet is now a best in rare slot now, it's almost as good as an ultrarare.

It’s better than many URs, and would be a better buy than many URs to upgrade characters.


I don't know which URs you think it is better than, but I don't think so.
I would agree that for the rarity, it is better than all rares.

I think I could go either way, +4 stats total, +3 stats total, with or without strength. Its a great rare, and I will be holding onto any I have to help trade to newer players.

I wasn’t limiting the discussion to the neck slot when I said better than many URs
It’s better than bracers of fast fitnesses
Most volunteer URs
Amulet of Wonder Some years
Hand of Glory Unless you have legendary rings
In truth there aren’t many UR neck slots


I find it pointless to compare tokens power without considering the slot.

I feel doing so leads to absurdities, like concluding that some uncommon armor (Fae Oak Armor) is better than a rare volunteer ioun stone (Ioun Stone Onyx Sphere), or a Legendary wrist item (TaMor's +4 Mithral Bracers).

You’re right that there aren’t many ur neck slots. Most of them are clearly better than this token, two are strictly better, most of the rest offer slot swapping / expansion which is thus far always a ur effect.

If you want to argue this is better tha amulet of wonder you’re welcome to - that is matter of taste - for my money AoW is considerably nore powerful given its propensity to generate treasure.

I’ll say it’s fair criticism

I guess really the in between range between rare and ultra rare should be 4 star transmutes like Exalted Creeper Amulet IMO
That’s a better 1 to 1 companion
The topic has been locked.

2020 Rare Beta Images 4 years 8 months ago #39

Wayne Rhodes wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Wayne Rhodes wrote:

Wade Schwendemann wrote:

Wayne Rhodes wrote:

James J Krot wrote: Still think the amulet is now a best in rare slot now, it's almost as good as an ultrarare.

It’s better than many URs, and would be a better buy than many URs to upgrade characters.


I don't know which URs you think it is better than, but I don't think so.
I would agree that for the rarity, it is better than all rares.

I think I could go either way, +4 stats total, +3 stats total, with or without strength. Its a great rare, and I will be holding onto any I have to help trade to newer players.

I wasn’t limiting the discussion to the neck slot when I said better than many URs
It’s better than bracers of fast fitnesses
Most volunteer URs
Amulet of Wonder Some years
Hand of Glory Unless you have legendary rings
In truth there aren’t many UR neck slots


I find it pointless to compare tokens power without considering the slot.

I feel doing so leads to absurdities, like concluding that some uncommon armor (Fae Oak Armor) is better than a rare volunteer ioun stone (Ioun Stone Onyx Sphere), or a Legendary wrist item (TaMor's +4 Mithral Bracers).

You’re right that there aren’t many ur neck slots. Most of them are clearly better than this token, two are strictly better, most of the rest offer slot swapping / expansion which is thus far always a ur effect.

If you want to argue this is better tha amulet of wonder you’re welcome to - that is matter of taste - for my money AoW is considerably nore powerful given its propensity to generate treasure.

I’ll say it’s fair criticism

I guess really the in between range between rare and ultra rare should be 4 star transmutes like Exalted Creeper Amulet IMO
That’s a better 1 to 1 companion


4 star tranmutes seem to be almost UR. Belt of ogre mage power vs hill or stone giant girdles.

Not to mention +4 to one stat is typically better than +2 to 2 stats.
The topic has been locked.

2020 Rare Beta Images 4 years 8 months ago #40

Endgame wrote:

Wayne Rhodes wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Wayne Rhodes wrote:

Wade Schwendemann wrote:

Wayne Rhodes wrote:

James J Krot wrote: Still think the amulet is now a best in rare slot now, it's almost as good as an ultrarare.

It’s better than many URs, and would be a better buy than many URs to upgrade characters.


I don't know which URs you think it is better than, but I don't think so.
I would agree that for the rarity, it is better than all rares.

I think I could go either way, +4 stats total, +3 stats total, with or without strength. Its a great rare, and I will be holding onto any I have to help trade to newer players.

I wasn’t limiting the discussion to the neck slot when I said better than many URs
It’s better than bracers of fast fitnesses
Most volunteer URs
Amulet of Wonder Some years
Hand of Glory Unless you have legendary rings
In truth there aren’t many UR neck slots


I find it pointless to compare tokens power without considering the slot.

I feel doing so leads to absurdities, like concluding that some uncommon armor (Fae Oak Armor) is better than a rare volunteer ioun stone (Ioun Stone Onyx Sphere), or a Legendary wrist item (TaMor's +4 Mithral Bracers).

You’re right that there aren’t many ur neck slots. Most of them are clearly better than this token, two are strictly better, most of the rest offer slot swapping / expansion which is thus far always a ur effect.

If you want to argue this is better tha amulet of wonder you’re welcome to - that is matter of taste - for my money AoW is considerably nore powerful given its propensity to generate treasure.

I’ll say it’s fair criticism

I guess really the in between range between rare and ultra rare should be 4 star transmutes like Exalted Creeper Amulet IMO
That’s a better 1 to 1 companion


4 star tranmutes seem to be almost UR. Belt of ogre mage power vs hill or stone giant girdles.

Not to mention +4 to one stat is typically better than +2 to 2 stats.


Hill giant girdle was 7 years ago. (And a friend on mine that has one was wining about the transmute anyway).
Also some stats are worth more than others. I think most would agree +2 STR +2 con is better than +4 Dex
Also I look at 4 stare as half way between rare and UR
The topic has been locked.

2020 Rare Beta Images 4 years 8 months ago #41

  • Xavon
  • Xavon's Avatar
  • Offline
  • 7th Level
  • Supporter
  • Obligation is the sincerest form of insanity
  • Posts: 3155
I would rather see the Amulet of Vigor be

Dynamic Amulet
+2 to any one ability score (choose at start)
Applications programming is a race between software engineers, who strive to produce idiot-proof programs, and the Universe, which strives to produce bigger idiots.  <br /><br />So far, the Universe is winning.
The topic has been locked.

2020 Rare Beta Images 4 years 8 months ago #42

Xavon wrote: I would rather see the Amulet of Vigor be

Dynamic Amulet
+2 to any one ability score (choose at start)

but then they can’t sell 6 years of tokens

Edit
Seriously though that seems more powerful. There is an eldritch that took a bit to allow choice less than that. To put it on a rare is quite significant.
--
macXdmg
Monk of the Painda Order
Bard of the College of Sick Beats

Trade thread truedungeon.com/forum?view=topic&catid=61&id=253064#406060
Last edit: by macxdmg.
The topic has been locked.

2020 Rare Beta Images 4 years 8 months ago #43

  • Xavon
  • Xavon's Avatar
  • Offline
  • 7th Level
  • Supporter
  • Obligation is the sincerest form of insanity
  • Posts: 3155

macXdmg wrote:

Xavon wrote: I would rather see the Amulet of Vigor be

Dynamic Amulet
+2 to any one ability score (choose at start)

but then they can’t sell 6 years of tokens

Edit
Seriously though that seems more powerful. There is an eldritch that took a bit to allow choice less than that. To put it on a rare is quite significant.


+2 of choice is better than +4 total, but locked? When 2 of the 4 are already allocated to the most commonly disputed and powerful ability?
Applications programming is a race between software engineers, who strive to produce idiot-proof programs, and the Universe, which strives to produce bigger idiots.  <br /><br />So far, the Universe is winning.
The topic has been locked.

2020 Rare Beta Images 4 years 8 months ago #44

Xavon wrote:

macXdmg wrote:

Xavon wrote: I would rather see the Amulet of Vigor be

Dynamic Amulet
+2 to any one ability score (choose at start)

but then they can’t sell 6 years of tokens

Edit
Seriously though that seems more powerful. There is an eldritch that took a bit to allow choice less than that. To put it on a rare is quite significant.


+2 of choice is better than +4 total, but locked? When 2 of the 4 are already allocated to the most commonly disputed and powerful ability?

Has anyone tried to explain why they think its a good idea that neck is the only slot that rare and under is a 5 stat gap away from UR? Or tried to explain why neck should be a power slot only for UR?
Last edit: by Endgame.
The topic has been locked.

2020 Rare Beta Images 4 years 8 months ago #45

  • Xavon
  • Xavon's Avatar
  • Offline
  • 7th Level
  • Supporter
  • Obligation is the sincerest form of insanity
  • Posts: 3155

Endgame wrote:

Xavon wrote:

macXdmg wrote:

Xavon wrote: I would rather see the Amulet of Vigor be

Dynamic Amulet
+2 to any one ability score (choose at start)

but then they can’t sell 6 years of tokens

Edit
Seriously though that seems more powerful. There is an eldritch that took a bit to allow choice less than that. To put it on a rare is quite significant.


+2 of choice is better than +4 total, but locked? When 2 of the 4 are already allocated to the most commonly disputed and powerful ability?

Has anyone tried to explain why they think its a good idea that neck is the only slot that rare and under is a 5 stat gap away from UR? Or tried to explain why neck should be a power slot only for UR?


Because of all of the people claiming power creep? And asking for options not power? And because the even odd split in ability scores means that total value is not indicative of total power?
Applications programming is a race between software engineers, who strive to produce idiot-proof programs, and the Universe, which strives to produce bigger idiots.  <br /><br />So far, the Universe is winning.
The topic has been locked.

2020 Rare Beta Images 4 years 8 months ago #46

Endgame wrote:

Xavon wrote:

macXdmg wrote:

Xavon wrote: I would rather see the Amulet of Vigor be

Dynamic Amulet
+2 to any one ability score (choose at start)

but then they can’t sell 6 years of tokens

Edit
Seriously though that seems more powerful. There is an eldritch that took a bit to allow choice less than that. To put it on a rare is quite significant.


+2 of choice is better than +4 total, but locked? When 2 of the 4 are already allocated to the most commonly disputed and powerful ability?

Has anyone tried to explain why they think its a good idea that neck is the only slot that rare and under is a 5 stat gap away from UR? Or tried to explain why neck should be a power slot only for UR?


Nope - I’ve asked probably 10 times across these threads and no one has attempted to explain it.

Word to the wise: adding lower rarity more powerful new tokens to single slot that are worse than several existing BiS options is not “power creep.”

In fact it directly addressed one of the harmful aspects of power creep - which is a large gap between BiS players and everyone else.

The time to raise a hue and cry about how good this token is is when Stu-pendous pendant was printed and the best rare neck item was +2 str. Well - we got Stu’s, we got amulet of the champion, we got Medallion of Valhalla, and now it’s well past time we got this.
Last edit: by Matthew Hayward.
The topic has been locked.

2020 Rare Beta Images 4 years 8 months ago #47

Matthew Hayward wrote: Word to the wise: adding lower rarity more powerful new tokens to single slot that are worse than several existing BiS options is not “power creep.”

In fact it directly addressed one of the harmful aspects of power creep - which is a large gap between BiS players and everyone else.
.

+1 This is an excellent point.
The topic has been locked.

2020 Rare Beta Images 4 years 8 months ago #48

+1 Assassin's Blade

When I think paladin, I don't think assassin. I doubt there's space, but it would be a thematic change to ditch paladin.

The plethora of rare weapons does mean +2 Arrow got squeezed out, which I don't care specifically about, but it means there's no rare Enchanter's Munition token, which seems a bad idea. Just kidding, I do care about it specifically. +2 Arrow fits with what else is going on, in particular the emphasis on Bows and the rare Quiver. Oh, and Ranger transmutes kind of want ammo, too.

I really doubt someone is going to get perturbed if one of the +1 1h weapons gets ditched, like the bastard sword.

+1 Claymore

Not a reprint, unlike Claymore, but it uses the reprinted uncommon damage wheel as a model when the reprinted damage wheel doesn't make sense.

+1 Heavy Mace

Reprint with different damage wheel.

600 GP Unpilfered Idol

I don't know about this break from recent history. I'd happily get rid of Withering Runestone to restore the usual GP pattern. But, maybe, that has more to do with lack of interest in any Runestones than in GP being smoothed out over three tokens. I guess it's an interesting experiment to see how much complaining there is about gross imbalances in rare values beyond the other gross imbalances in rare values (resurrection potions versus not resurrection potions, for instance).

Amulet of Vigor

I guess I don't feel strongly enough to argue about the size of the stat bumps. But, I do wish there were more +Con/+Dex tokens a la Bracers of Fast Fitness. While neck may deserve a power bump at rare, recent years are very, very STR happy at lower rarities now.

Boots of Shocking Step

When compared against two UR boots, this seems really good. Should make lots of players below UR level happier.

Dust of Mending

Spell could be capitalized.

Mail of Luck

While obviously not Lucky (except for ... nvm), this is exceedingly confusing to print in the same year as the Lucky set. This should either by Lucky or should be Luckless. Lockless Mail, anyone? Okay, then.

Also, if Nether Fate Armor is any guide, seems like a rare would go to AC +3 and +1 Saves, but it's hard to say if this makes sense. If this armor were to be part of a multirarity set, which I think is interesting, though I can see complaints if the only way to set bonus is to get an UR, AC +3 and +1 Saves at rare seems fine. If not part of a set, seems half an AC under.

Potion Heavy Healing

"Cures ..."
The topic has been locked.
Time to create page: 0.093 seconds