TOPIC: Int, Wis,and Cha?

jedibcg wrote:

Brad Mortensen wrote: Only the richest and silliest of newbies would wander into THAT.

And yet some would because they want to play TD so bad they would buy without reading. That is why EVERY year somone ends up in grind thinking it is a dungeon.

But I still like this option because if a newbie buys a whole slot for $800 and shows up alone we can give them a great newbie experience.

But if a newbie showed up to a run with 9 other players who signed up for nightmare that's not necessarily going to end well.

jedibcg wrote:

Brad Mortensen wrote: Only the richest and silliest of newbies would wander into THAT.

And yet some would because they want to play TD so bad they would buy without reading. That is why EVERY year somone ends up in grind thinking it is a dungeon.

True, but that’s often because a Grind ticket is so much cheaper.

I suppose some clueless newbie would spend 800 on a ticket without reading about it, but I suspect that would be after all the cheaper tickets are already gone. But since the full-run tix are the ones that veterans will snap up first, I think the risk is minimal.

I strongly recommend against any further slot enhancers (whether from stats or items). We have a serious power creep happing that will get substantially worse if allowed. The power creep problem makes separating runs by difficulty increasingly hard to manage - with more groups mixed together that can handle certain parts of nightmare (for example) but not other elements (saves or acs or damage output).

Rather than continue an arms race - leaving slots where they are (adding a tome slot actually brings power down since it is un-slotted now) is a good thing.

In terms of benefits of the stats - we already have a benefit for high chr, a second figurine (unfortunate power creep). The odds of getting substantially above 20 for a non-bard or paladin are low so it isn't really necessary to deal further with chr. If anything, we could benefit from having a minimum chr to qualify to use a figurine like 15 or 16. That would bring the power levels down a touch for some classes. If any benefit is given, perhaps a second use of a figurine above a very high level (22+) of chr but it isn't really necessary.

Int having an impact on game mechanics:
Option one: Unique save: it could be a save category like you see in 5e D&D (essentially have every stat have save categories if that change is made). Int saves would be rare - mainly against psychic abilities.
Option two: Aggregate or average Int for a group run could get an extra hint on puzzles.
Option three: Super high int (23+) gives the PC access to a brighter light to see things in puzzle rooms?
Option four: Int below a certain level makes the PC more vulnerable to psychic attacks (ala 1st and 2nd edition D&D)
Option five (this would further power creep): 20+ Int allows a second tome slot
Option six (terrible power creep): Int becomes a stat allowing for usage of psychic abilities (assuming you have the teeth) - for example:
Below 10 Int - you cannot have psychic abilities
12 Int - you can have up to three levels of psychic abilities (no power creep)
14 Int - you can have up to six levels of psychic abilities (no power creep)
18 Int - you can use all psychic abilities (no power creep)
20 Int - you can use all pyschic abilities without the ioun stone, amulet, or shirt enabling use of them (minor power creep)
22 Int - All prior benefits plus double effect of all psychic abilities - perhaps access to a power point pool to use as desired like prior D&D editions (significant power creep)
25 Int - W/ all 7 teeth - ability to psychic blast opponents similar to a mind flayer (really crazy power creep)

Wisdom - We already benefit from this for will saves - we don't really need more. If we did anything, I would recommend it be minor bumps to healing at various stat levels.

Fred

Kirk Bauer wrote:

jedibcg wrote:

Brad Mortensen wrote: Only the richest and silliest of newbies would wander into THAT.

And yet some would because they want to play TD so bad they would buy without reading. That is why EVERY year somone ends up in grind thinking it is a dungeon.

But I still like this option because if a newbie buys a whole slot for $800 and shows up alone we can give them a great newbie experience.

But if a newbie showed up to a run with 9 other players who signed up for nightmare that's not necessarily going to end well.

I agree it would lessen the chance of making anyone unhappy because all 10 players likely know each other at that point. But just pointing out that the run would not end up being reserved for higher equipped players if it does end up being bought by a newb group. Better yes, perfect no.

jedibcg wrote:

Kirk Bauer wrote:

jedibcg wrote:

Brad Mortensen wrote: Only the richest and silliest of newbies would wander into THAT.

And yet some would because they want to play TD so bad they would buy without reading. That is why EVERY year somone ends up in grind thinking it is a dungeon.

But I still like this option because if a newbie buys a whole slot for $800 and shows up alone we can give them a great newbie experience.

But if a newbie showed up to a run with 9 other players who signed up for nightmare that's not necessarily going to end well.

I agree it would lessen the chance of making anyone unhappy because all 10 players likely know each other at that point. But just pointing out that the run would not end up being reserved for higher equipped players if it does end up being bought by a newb group. Better yes, perfect no.

If the goal is to cater to epic players, you’re right. If the goal is to reduce the number of mis-matched pickup groups, it’s a success either way.

Brad Mortensen wrote: If the goal is to cater to epic players, you’re right. If the goal is to reduce the number of mis-matched pickup groups, it’s a success either way.

We don't need to tie a level to it though. Just by making some tickets being actually 10 tickets would achieve this, no level/difficulty requirements. I would be 100% for this, but I admit that is for completely selfish reason of having a better chance of getting 10 tickets to a run. Overall I bet Gen Con wouldn't like it with their whole e-tickets tying to a badge and all.

jedibcg wrote:

Brad Mortensen wrote: If the goal is to cater to epic players, you’re right. If the goal is to reduce the number of mis-matched pickup groups, it’s a success either way.

We don't need to tie a level to it though. Just by making some tickets being actually 10 tickets would achieve this, no level/difficulty requirements. I would be 100% for this, but I admit that is for completely selfish reason of having a better chance of getting 10 tickets to a run. Overall I bet Gen Con wouldn't like it with their whole e-tickets tying to a badge and all.

Agreed, they’re the biggest reason it might not be doable.

Ideally, buying the big ticket would result in ten showing up in your cart, so you could pass them around ahead of time. But now I’m sure I’m even deeper in fantasy land.

jedibcg wrote:

Brad Mortensen wrote: Only the richest and silliest of newbies would wander into THAT.

And yet some would because they want to play TD so bad they would buy without reading. That is why EVERY year somone ends up in grind thinking it is a dungeon.

If a Newbie spends $800 on an event without reading what the event is and is in any way unhappy with the event (no matter what the event)....then I'm sorry but my only thought is....tough shit beans for that person. Lesson learned.

Rob F wrote: If a Newbie spends $800 on an event without reading what the event is and is in any way unhappy with the event (no matter what the event)....then I'm sorry but my only thought is....tough shit beans for that person. Lesson learned.

I understand the sentiment but that would be terrible customer service for Jeff and Co. Someone willing to $800 to try out TD is the kind of person you want coming back, not bad mouthing TD.

But at least they would control the run and could always choose to lower the difficulty.

But really I was just looking to get the discussion rolling on the benefits of the stats to help players planning for future token devolopment/purchases.

jedibcg wrote:

Rob F wrote: If a Newbie spends $800 on an event without reading what the event is and is in any way unhappy with the event (no matter what the event)....then I'm sorry but my only thought is....tough shit beans for that person. Lesson learned.

I understand the sentiment but that would be terrible customer service for Jeff and Co. Someone willing to $800 to try out TD is the kind of person you want coming back, not bad mouthing TD.

I'm in sales and have lots of customers. Trust me. TD doesn't want a customer that pays $800 without knowing what they are paying for. That's the kind of customer you want your competition to have.