TOPIC: Transmute Ideas Please!

Scroll of Displacement - Consumable - Bard, Wizards
Melee attacks against target gain a 50% miss chance

Transmutes from:
(reprint) Scroll False Image

Joker Runestone - melee weapon counts towards one additional set bonus

E.g. an Orb of Might could also count towards the Viper Set, or Baton of Focus could count towards Might.

I picked Runestone because, if this turns out to be overpowered, at least we know we’ll run out of them eventually.

P.s. the recipe would take a ton of Planks and PStones, among other things.

EDIT: actually, I think it should be called “Loki’s Runestone,” after everyone’s favorite Norse shapechanging trickster.

EDIT: I think this will breathe some new life into some sets whose individual parts have been superceeded by newer tokens

Brad Mortensen wrote: Joker Runestone - melee weapon counts towards one additional set bonus

E.g. an Orb of Might could also count towards the Viper Set, or Baton of Focus could count towards Might.

I picked Runestone because, if this turns out to be overpowered, at least we know we’ll run out of them eventually.

P.s. the recipe would take a ton of Planks and PStones, among other things.

EDIT: actually, I think it should be called “Loki’s Runestone,” after everyone’s favorite Norse shapechanging trickster.

EDIT: I think this will breathe some new life into some sets whose individual parts have been superceeded by newer tokens

Many of the sets don't seem to have aged well. Perhaps those should be revisited if this were to be created?

Matthew Hayward wrote: Other consumables (ammo, dust, non-damage effect runestones, non-healing scrolls, non-healing potions other than Bull's Strenght) I don't believe are used (please speak up if you do).

Our Elf Wizard and Wizard use Pixie Dust from time to time. Our Ranger is set up as a ranged sniper—she’s used Arrows of Ricochet to good effect in rooms with two or more monsters several times, and I think she’s used +1 to hit arrows on final bosses. I’ve used Cat’s Grace when stuck in a true ranged-only room. Our Bard used blowgun ammo when he was using the Fae Blowgun Flute, but starting this season, he’s going to be using other, better instruments/weapons.

Other than that, yeah, most of our ammo and dusts end up as trade goods.

Matthew Hayward wrote: Other consumables (ammo, dust, non-damage effect runestones, non-healing scrolls, non-healing potions other than Bull's Strenght) I don't believe are used (please speak up if you do).

I have a small stash of ammo that I hold onto for range only combats because that is where my group's builds are weakest. Runestones are hit and miss with me. I do hang on to the non-damage effects for about a year. So the year of the Lycan everyone burned the non-regenation one for example. We hold onto very few non-healing scrolls. A couple damage dealing ones from each year just in case the wizard get spell happy too early and need something in the last room to do. Sage Speed Lenses can move through scrolls quick.

jedibcg wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote: Other consumables (ammo, dust, non-damage effect runestones, non-healing scrolls, non-healing potions other than Bull's Strenght) I don't believe are used (please speak up if you do).

I have a small stash of ammo that I hold onto for range only combats because that is where my group's builds are weakest. Runestones are hit and miss with me. I do hang on to the non-damage effects for about a year. So the year of the Lycan everyone burned the non-regenation one for example. We hold onto very few non-healing scrolls. A couple damage dealing ones from each year just in case the wizard get spell happy too early and need something in the last room to do. Sage Speed Lenses can move through scrolls quick.

+1 to sage speed burning through damage scrolls. An ocarina equipped bard with sage speed and the greater arcane scroll tube can do pretty good damage. It’s a fun build.

Boilerplate wrote:

jedibcg wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote: Other consumables (ammo, dust, non-damage effect runestones, non-healing scrolls, non-healing potions other than Bull's Strenght) I don't believe are used (please speak up if you do).

I have a small stash of ammo that I hold onto for range only combats because that is where my group's builds are weakest. Runestones are hit and miss with me. I do hang on to the non-damage effects for about a year. So the year of the Lycan everyone burned the non-regenation one for example. We hold onto very few non-healing scrolls. A couple damage dealing ones from each year just in case the wizard get spell happy too early and need something in the last room to do. Sage Speed Lenses can move through scrolls quick.

+1 to sage speed burning through damage scrolls. An ocarina equipped bard with sage speed and the greater arcane scroll tube can do pretty good damage. It’s a fun build.

That build doesn't work.

Quoting Lenses of Sage Speed "The wearer may cast two scrolls in one round. The first scroll consumes the wearer’s Standard Action and the second scroll consumes the wearer’s Free Action for that round. It does not allow wearers to cast a scroll as a Free Action if their Standard Action was used for any purpose other than casting a scroll"

You can't use your standard action of Bardsong + Scroll from Amorgen's to qualify for the Lenses of Sage Speed's action. Both URs require a standard action to power - you have only 1 to work with.

I might be wrong about this, but if so I think TokenDB needs clarification.

TL:DR;

LoSS says: Spend your standard and free action to read two scrolls.
AAO says: Spend your standard action to perform bardsong and read a scroll.

There is no way to do both.

Midas' Mantle - Back - All
+4 treasure, you may not equip waist slot items

Transmutes from:
Rare - Hand of Midas - 400 GP
Recipe includes one hundred 2020 or 2021 treasure pulls.

Matthew Hayward wrote: Midas' Mantle - Back - All
+4 treasure, you may not equip waist slot items

Transmutes from:
Rare - Hand of Midas - 400 GP
Recipe includes one hundred 2020 or 2021 treasure pulls.

This is a very interesting idea. It plays to the rich get richer idea and potentially plays a huge gamble on True Adventures as to do they assume a treasure mix that can be lighter as people will save pulls to build these or just for with normal token numbers to ensure no misses. A normal run without treasure pulls could all team together to make one with 4 runs, 2.5 if they had a +1 rare te.

So mathing slowly here, one person with nothing would be 34 runs to make. With one rare te it is 25, and with the transmute this year it’s 20 runs to make. If im new and already in the koolade on transmutes the ur nuggets at 100 (not sure you could find that deal only buying one), and the transmute at even 50 (all theoretical) puts me at half the original number, still 17 runs. An AoTF is in the cards and you have only 14, which if only using one AoTF could use the transmute again for 12.5 runs. Which only saves one run at this point where as an iounstone saves two, which is again a savings. The cheapest way to make this as a new player would be AoTF, current year iounstone (if you can get it for 100) and 11 runs. Another iounstone would be a toss up but leaves you with more future token pulls.

From the other end of the scale, someone at sixth level and all the stacking TEs will have 25 pulls a run in 2021, which is 4 runs per transmute they want to make.

So looking at it sideways, 100 pulls would be $400 ish, for 4 new token pulls and a slot limitation.

What if instead of no waist slot limitation it was a back slot, +3 or 4 pulls, and no other TEs that are not “Midas Set” or UR level? This would only take 20 - 25 treasure pulls and a rare and if additional “Midas items” were created they could stack.

This would not look like the rich getting richer, although I’m sure sacking one runs worth to make one of these might happen more than people realize for run cost offset. It would give a new person something they could put together with only a rare te in 5 - 6 runs.

The Midas “Set” would have no benefit other than these TEs could be worn together if it became a set. If it needed to not stack with say a horn it could be called out in tokendb. There may be other implications that I’m missing.

macXdmg wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote: Midas' Mantle - Back - All
+4 treasure, you may not equip waist slot items

Transmutes from:
Rare - Hand of Midas - 400 GP
Recipe includes one hundred 2020 or 2021 treasure pulls.

This is a very interesting idea. It plays to the rich get richer idea and potentially plays a huge gamble on True Adventures as to do they assume a treasure mix that can be lighter as people will save pulls to build these or just for with normal token numbers to ensure no misses. A normal run without treasure pulls could all team together to make one with 4 runs, 2.5 if they had a +1 rare te.

So mathing slowly here, one person with nothing would be 34 runs to make. With one rare te it is 25, and with the transmute this year it’s 20 runs to make. If im new and already in the koolade on transmutes the ur nuggets at 100 (not sure you could find that deal only buying one), and the transmute at even 50 (all theoretical) puts me at half the original number, still 17 runs. An AoTF is in the cards and you have only 14, which if only using one AoTF could use the transmute again for 12.5 runs. Which only saves one run at this point where as an iounstone saves two, which is again a savings. The cheapest way to make this as a new player would be AoTF, current year iounstone (if you can get it for 100) and 11 runs. Another iounstone would be a toss up but leaves you with more future token pulls.

From the other end of the scale, someone at sixth level and all the stacking TEs will have 25 pulls a run in 2021, which is 4 runs per transmute they want to make.

So looking at it sideways, 100 pulls would be $400 ish, for 4 new token pulls and a slot limitation.

What if instead of no waist slot limitation it was a back slot, +3 or 4 pulls, and no other TEs that are not “Midas Set” or UR level? This would only take 20 - 25 treasure pulls and a rare and if additional “Midas items” were created they could stack.

This would not look like the rich getting richer, although I’m sure sacking one runs worth to make one of these might happen more than people realize for run cost offset. It would give a new person something they could put together with only a rare te in 5 - 6 runs.

The Midas “Set” would have no benefit other than these TEs could be worn together if it became a set. If it needed to not stack with say a horn it could be called out in tokendb. There may be other implications that I’m missing.

Honestly I'm not a fan of this idea. IMO it would not present good optics & it would creep treasure in an unexpected way years before we have to.

That said if we did go ahead with it, having it block both the back and waist makes does not make it feel like a relic (which the price point suggests). Congrats you have designed the first TE I would pass on.

Picc wrote:

macXdmg wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote: Midas' Mantle - Back - All
+4 treasure, you may not equip waist slot items

Transmutes from:
Rare - Hand of Midas - 400 GP
Recipe includes one hundred 2020 or 2021 treasure pulls.

This is a very interesting idea. It plays to the rich get richer idea and potentially plays a huge gamble on True Adventures as to do they assume a treasure mix that can be lighter as people will save pulls to build these or just for with normal token numbers to ensure no misses. A normal run without treasure pulls could all team together to make one with 4 runs, 2.5 if they had a +1 rare te.

So mathing slowly here, one person with nothing would be 34 runs to make. With one rare te it is 25, and with the transmute this year it’s 20 runs to make. If im new and already in the koolade on transmutes the ur nuggets at 100 (not sure you could find that deal only buying one), and the transmute at even 50 (all theoretical) puts me at half the original number, still 17 runs. An AoTF is in the cards and you have only 14, which if only using one AoTF could use the transmute again for 12.5 runs. Which only saves one run at this point where as an iounstone saves two, which is again a savings. The cheapest way to make this as a new player would be AoTF, current year iounstone (if you can get it for 100) and 11 runs. Another iounstone would be a toss up but leaves you with more future token pulls.

From the other end of the scale, someone at sixth level and all the stacking TEs will have 25 pulls a run in 2021, which is 4 runs per transmute they want to make.

So looking at it sideways, 100 pulls would be $400 ish, for 4 new token pulls and a slot limitation.

What if instead of no waist slot limitation it was a back slot, +3 or 4 pulls, and no other TEs that are not “Midas Set” or UR level? This would only take 20 - 25 treasure pulls and a rare and if additional “Midas items” were created they could stack.

This would not look like the rich getting richer, although I’m sure sacking one runs worth to make one of these might happen more than people realize for run cost offset. It would give a new person something they could put together with only a rare te in 5 - 6 runs.

The Midas “Set” would have no benefit other than these TEs could be worn together if it became a set. If it needed to not stack with say a horn it could be called out in tokendb. There may be other implications that I’m missing.

Honestly I'm not a fan of this idea. IMO it would not present good optics & it would creep treasure in an unexpected way years before we have to.

That said if we did go ahead with it, having it block both the back and waist makes does not make it feel like a relic (which the price point suggests). Congrats you have designed the first TE I would pass on.

Excellent!

I think there is a conventional wisdom that TEs will always be BiS for a large proportion of players.

I think if you push hard enough, particularly on prized melee slots, we might find this isn't so.

I think it would be interesting to give players the choice of:

TE creep _or_ melee creep (until magic or ranged catches up to melee). Then give a choice of TE creep or melee/magic/ranged creep.

Right now maxing out TEs has very little impact on ones melee build - perhaps shaving off +1/+1 or +2/+2.

I on the other hand think that players would make one to use, play at NM or epic once, then play at HC and use this every time.