TOPIC: Transmute Ideas Please!

300pounder wrote: What i mean by costly is 4 trophies which average like 8.50 then the ingrediants like 11 for all 3 your looking close to 50$ basically for a new player who doesnt know if they even want to continue playing, its alot just for +1,
Everything im posting to the 2020 developement is with new players first in mind, not what benifits NM players

We have to keep the NM players in mind though. Lets say we make a very cheap for what it does transmute like charm of health. It sells out instantly, or get limited to X per person. The NM players aren't going to just ignore it. The core problem is anything you make super easy to entice those who don't really care that much will also be super tempting for those that care a lot to abuse. Honestly I'm starting to feel more and more like were chasing after a phantom audience we will never be able to please.

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Endgame wrote: Well, they probably won't buy a 250 order when you can order a UR TE from the various tokens sites for 100 (ish). On top of that, most of the money for TE is not going to go to TD anyway, but to the token sites.

I very much disagree with the way this characterizes the token stores. IMO they do us a lot more good then harm and I could be wrong but I don't think many of them run much of a profit.

Endgame wrote: With only one TE in print, if the new player in question wants to actually pull a reasonable amount of treasure (around 12), they are going to need to pickup: Gold Nugget, Silver Nugget (small markup from 3rd party site), AoTF (huge markup from 3rd party site) and possible a charm of good fortune (huge markup)

So in order for treasure to be considered reasonable you need to be able to quickly and cheaply access over 50% of what some people have paid literally thousand of dollars to be able to do. Try and keep in mind that the vast majority of people who play TD consider 3 chips to be reasonable. Sure you can say I'm the pot calling the kettle black but this comes across as very entitled.

Endgame wrote: But, stepping beyond that, what harm is there in allowing the newbie to get 5 or 6 total draws without having to invest in a UR?

Well UR represent a significant portion of TDs income so there's that. But more so right now a minority of players who have invested heavily in TD draw a lot of treasure. Odds are this is a good move since odds are also good they will be back to buy more stuff next year. Frankly its the same reason casinos comp high rollers. You want to keep the big spenders playing more than you want to bring new people in the door. New people will come in look and look around on there own. And honestly most of them wont change their oppinians of TD one way or the other based on tokens. But lets assume we give them more stuff too with minimal up front investment. I suspect it would be less of a good move. Most of them likely wouldnt reilize they had been given anything of value since it was free anyway. This also says nothing about what it would cost TD to give away 4x the amount of treasure it does now (12 is reasonable right).

Endgame wrote: In an ideal world, to really bridge the treasure gulf for the new players, a transmute TE should stack to a limited degree. For example, a new transmute TE should stack with all of the Nuggets - even if this transmute token gives +3 TE and they buy a silver and gold nugget, that leaves the new player at 10 treasure pulls, and they can look forward to another stacking TE with the Platinum nugget. With current releases, that's less than half of a Vet's pulls until they get the Platinum nugget, and if they've gone in for 3 nuggets, you probably have them hooked for buying UR.

You say all this like the vets didn't have to buy those same tokens to get those same pulls...

Endgame wrote: Given just how restrictive the Charm of Treasure Boosting is, it should have been 1 uncommon completion token and 1 monster bit - something a newbie could possibly make after their first run. That kind of price would also likely land it at less than $10, so if they can't use it after they buy their second UR TE, no big deal.

At that price I would make 10 just to loan out to people, and so would everyone else (I'm not even a big buyer). Then TD would run out of stock, newbies would get locked out, and the scalping would start again just like it did for charm of health. And it would be up the token stores to keep the prices low/ do transmutes for people out of there inventories/ and otherwise do what they could to prevent the representational damage that entitled people cause when they're disappointed.

I am 100% in favor of raising the floor, I am 100% in favor of new players having the same chance to build up their stuff same that the old ones did. But you have to remember you are already well on the path to being one of the outliers like the rest of us vets.

Look, I know your heart is in the right place and I'm off on a rant now so I'm going to stop. Just give it some time and trust me when I say the "vets" and "token stores" are not the enemy in situations like this and I'm getting tired of that narrative.

+2 Mace of Prayers
3-4-5-{6}-7-8-9-{10}
On {} heals 2 damage to another player of your choice
Usable by: Cleric

+3 Mace of Prayers
4-5-{6}-7-8-9-{10}-11
On {} heals that amount damage to another player of your choice
Usable by: Cleric

(so six or ten, depending on the slide)

jedibcg wrote: Just seems too early for a relic in greaves to me. We have only had them for 2 years. Rather see a relic in an older slot first. Eye, Figurine, Hands, Ioun Stone or Shirt come to mind.

So what ideas do you have for shirt? How about eyes? Any for figurine? I’d rather not the iounstone slot, I think that is almost as busy as the neck slot.

macXdmg wrote:

jedibcg wrote: Just seems too early for a relic in greaves to me. We have only had them for 2 years. Rather see a relic in an older slot first. Eye, Figurine, Hands, Ioun Stone or Shirt come to mind.

So what ideas do you have for shirt? How about eyes? Any for figurine? I’d rather not the iounstone slot, I think that is almost as busy as the neck slot.

My eye relic suggestion was :

Lenses of 2020 vision (or similar name)
+2 to hit melee, +2 to hit ranged, see invisible, hit incorporeal 100%

Relic Shirt of Covering: +1 eldritch damage melee, ranged, spell, retribution, -1 damage incoming attacks

It is similar to the +2 strength or the ur shirt of focus or viper strike and weaker than them in order to add the retribution, and eldritch aspects. I don’t know that I’d want to make it, it is different though. The eldritch ring might inspire this a bit though I’d rather see it a normal relic or more powerful.

Endgame wrote:

macXdmg wrote:

jedibcg wrote: Just seems too early for a relic in greaves to me. We have only had them for 2 years. Rather see a relic in an older slot first. Eye, Figurine, Hands, Ioun Stone or Shirt come to mind.

So what ideas do you have for shirt? How about eyes? Any for figurine? I’d rather not the iounstone slot, I think that is almost as busy as the neck slot.

My eye relic suggestion was :

Lenses of 2020 vision (or similar name)
+2 to hit melee, +2 to hit ranged, see invisible, hit incorporeal 100%

You forgot may sneak attack at ranged.

macXdmg wrote:

jedibcg wrote: Just seems too early for a relic in greaves to me. We have only had them for 2 years. Rather see a relic in an older slot first. Eye, Figurine, Hands, Ioun Stone or Shirt come to mind.

So what ideas do you have for shirt? How about eyes? Any for figurine? I’d rather not the iounstone slot, I think that is almost as busy as the neck slot.

Point of fact, Beads are newer than Greaves, and they got a Relic already...

How about a reprint of Lenses of Clear Sight with a Relic. Like:
Lenses of True Sight
+1 to hit (all) Negates Invisibility, Displacement, Mirror Image, and Intangibility effects. Immune to charm and possession.

macXdmg wrote:

Endgame wrote:

macXdmg wrote:

jedibcg wrote: Just seems too early for a relic in greaves to me. We have only had them for 2 years. Rather see a relic in an older slot first. Eye, Figurine, Hands, Ioun Stone or Shirt come to mind.

So what ideas do you have for shirt? How about eyes? Any for figurine? I’d rather not the iounstone slot, I think that is almost as busy as the neck slot.

My eye relic suggestion was :

Lenses of 2020 vision (or similar name)
+2 to hit melee, +2 to hit ranged, see invisible, hit incorporeal 100%

You forgot may sneak attack at ranged.

And +2 to healing spells and divide healing across 2 target

But I think my proposed token would get used a lot without obsoleting all other eye slots, which seems like a big win. I could be wrong on power though, I'm normally busy looking at rares and under

Lenses of Future Success: +3 it hit with melee, ranged, spells, scrolls, and may make a surprise attack before rolling initiative.

It combines most of the best urs into one sort of, 3 dex is different, invisibility, incorporeal and a few other effects are still unique, it gives an advantage that would be very desireable that isn’t a reprint. An argument could be made for +2, I don’t see it personally.

Zinger included for hilarity.

Edit : cannot be surprised would be significantly weaker, and makes the +3 more reasonable. Food for thought.

macXdmg wrote: .
It combines most of the best urs into one sort of

Combining two URs has happened in a Relic. Combining more than two likely places it beyond a Relic, more likely a Legendary.

Figurine of Power: Relic Phoenix Rising : immediately restore 1 character who just died to life with 7 hp. 1/game

It technically negates a failed save, or heals a character 4+3, and leaves a person with enough to take push damage of 6 points.

Fiddy wrote:

macXdmg wrote: .
It combines most of the best urs into one sort of

Combining two URs has happened in a Relic. Combining more than two likely places it beyond a Relic, more likely a Legendary.

At +2 it would be almost two, and some other things, it isn’t 2 healing, it isn’t a scroll as a free action, it is 2 to hit with that scroll and it isn’t 3 to hit at ranged anymore.

Goggles of Instant Analysis is +2

Sage Speed is completely different but why I added scrolls to this.

Sniper Spectacles is why I went with +3 originally and ranged and spells.

And finally

Serpent Sight was the kick off for the pre round idea, and the downgraded version. I don’t like the +2 everywhere and cannot be surprised as it doesn’t add two URs together in a good way, just an include everyone way. The +2 and the special pre-round thing might be broken, and so might the +3 and cannot be surprised but those are more interesting to me.