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TOPIC: Ultra Rare Token Ideas

Ultra Rare Token Ideas 5 years 2 weeks ago #457

Fiddy wrote:

Hawk Fingle wrote: What if it worked similar to the Charming set, but ran off Ioun Stones equipped?

UR - Supreme (Offhand something) of the Sage, +2 AC, +1 to Damage/Healing scrolls for every Ioun Stone equipped (Max +7). Bard, Cleric, Druid, Paladin, Ranger, Wizard.

That would be a decent swap for the Shield of the Scholar for melee offhand, would be open to all scroll casters, and combos with ioun stone builds. If it's slotted as a ranged offhand then it doesn't compete and would work with anyone using a two-handed melee, but I don't know what all shook out after the recent Archer's Buckler rules reassessment. No AC bonus and it feels too niche for a UR to me.

Man... That would be a must-have UR token for me. :) Heck, I'd be fine with it as an enhanced 4pt or Relic if people think it's too powerful for a UR. :D


It is a definite must-have for Wizard (they don't get AC in off-hand). And a fairly easy decision for Bards and Druids (Shield of Scholar or Dragonscale only real competition). Clerics and Paladins would have to give up most to use it (with Templar and Redoubt also available).

Why the desire for off hand slot? Why not a different slot that would allow it to work with Shield of the Scholar?


With the Lenses of Sage Speed doing basically the same thing, and Shield of the Scholar being gone for five years now, I'm coming around to the idea that offhand would be a decent spot for something like this as long as it still offers an AC bonus of some sort. Honestly I'd prefer gloves with no AC bonus since the Cabal gloves have been OOP for longer than the Shield and don't offer much bang for a scroll build when there are more AoE/multiple target scrolls being produced of late. I really like the idea of a glove that uses stones to power stuff... not sure where that idea could have possibly come from... certainly not anything like a superhero plot device or anything... :whistle: (Sidenote: Gloves that use Ioun Stones could be used for a variety of other effects and potentially provide a new transmute path to combine the effects much like the Supreme Ring of Elemental Command and Boots of the Four Winds. Maybe even add in the ability to equip a third ring in its final form in addition to its boosts. Hmmm...)

If it goes into the ranged offhand, then it wouldn't hurt sets for Clerics and Paladins, who would have to stop attacking to use a scroll in combat anyway and wouldn't matter much for healing when not in combat. If it were gloves, there's no worry at all other than competing with other gloves, which to me seems like a slot that is meant to support different build options anyway. I just don't think Gloves of the Cabal are worth it to equip for a scroll build, much less force the other casters to do so when they have better build options for their class features. Whereas the Bard with its jack-of-all-trades support approach and ability to cast all scrolls makes their choice of what gloves to equip a sort of compass that points to and supports their build. I'd definitely give up my Gloves of the Cutpurse for potentially +7 damage/healing per scroll cast.

But offhand is fine too. Needs the AC bonus in that case.
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Ultra Rare Token Ideas 5 years 2 weeks ago #458

I suppose I could see a ring slot too, but rings are pretty stuffed up much like the Ioun Stones.
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Ultra Rare Token Ideas 5 years 2 weeks ago #459

  • Xavon
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Xavon wrote: Scroll of Moonlit Flames
Does 10 pts of Fire damage to one target and 5 pts of Sacred damage to one target (Reusable, 1/room)
Usable by: Bard, Cleric, & Wizards


What if instead:

Tome of Moonlit Flames
Does 10 pts of Fire damage to one target and 5 pts of Sacred damage to one target. This counts as a scroll. (1/room)
Usable by: Bard, Cleric, & Wizards
Applications programming is a race between software engineers, who strive to produce idiot-proof programs, and the Universe, which strives to produce bigger idiots.  <br /><br />So far, the Universe is winning.
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Ultra Rare Token Ideas 5 years 2 weeks ago #460

Fiddy wrote:

Hawk Fingle wrote: What if it worked similar to the Charming set, but ran off Ioun Stones equipped?

UR - Supreme (Offhand something) of the Sage, +2 AC, +1 to Damage/Healing scrolls for every Ioun Stone equipped (Max +7). Bard, Cleric, Druid, Paladin, Ranger, Wizard.

That would be a decent swap for the Shield of the Scholar for melee offhand, would be open to all scroll casters, and combos with ioun stone builds. If it's slotted as a ranged offhand then it doesn't compete and would work with anyone using a two-handed melee, but I don't know what all shook out after the recent Archer's Buckler rules reassessment. No AC bonus and it feels too niche for a UR to me.

Man... That would be a must-have UR token for me. :) Heck, I'd be fine with it as an enhanced 4pt or Relic if people think it's too powerful for a UR. :D


It is a definite must-have for Wizard (they don't get AC in off-hand). And a fairly easy decision for Bards and Druids (Shield of Scholar or Dragonscale only real competition). Clerics and Paladins would have to give up most to use it (with Templar and Redoubt also available).

Why the desire for off hand slot? Why not a different slot that would allow it to work with Shield of the Scholar?


Tokens that are not usable with Staffs of Focus are not must have for Wizards.
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Ultra Rare Token Ideas 5 years 2 weeks ago #461

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Fiddy wrote:

Hawk Fingle wrote: What if it worked similar to the Charming set, but ran off Ioun Stones equipped?

UR - Supreme (Offhand something) of the Sage, +2 AC, +1 to Damage/Healing scrolls for every Ioun Stone equipped (Max +7). Bard, Cleric, Druid, Paladin, Ranger, Wizard.

That would be a decent swap for the Shield of the Scholar for melee offhand, would be open to all scroll casters, and combos with ioun stone builds. If it's slotted as a ranged offhand then it doesn't compete and would work with anyone using a two-handed melee, but I don't know what all shook out after the recent Archer's Buckler rules reassessment. No AC bonus and it feels too niche for a UR to me.

Man... That would be a must-have UR token for me. :) Heck, I'd be fine with it as an enhanced 4pt or Relic if people think it's too powerful for a UR. :D


It is a definite must-have for Wizard (they don't get AC in off-hand). And a fairly easy decision for Bards and Druids (Shield of Scholar or Dragonscale only real competition). Clerics and Paladins would have to give up most to use it (with Templar and Redoubt also available).

Why the desire for off hand slot? Why not a different slot that would allow it to work with Shield of the Scholar?


Tokens that are not usable with Staffs of Focus are not must have for Wizards.


Staff of Focus has no impact on scrolls, so for someone going down the path of a scroll-based build, why would Staff of Focus matter?
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Ultra Rare Token Ideas 5 years 2 weeks ago #462

Xavon wrote:

Xavon wrote: Scroll of Moonlit Flames
Does 10 pts of Fire damage to one target and 5 pts of Sacred damage to one target (Reusable, 1/room)
Usable by: Bard, Cleric, & Wizards


What if instead:

Tome of Moonlit Flames
Does 10 pts of Fire damage to one target and 5 pts of Sacred damage to one target. This counts as a scroll. (1/room)
Usable by: Bard, Cleric, & Wizards


That is a cool idea, any reason you left druids off? If it’s once per combat and an ultra rare any reason the 5 points don’t go to all other enemies? Or 5 fire to one and 5 sacred to all?

Edit
I assume that this is in a world with one tome slot, or they are limited by only one per character. There was concern when wands were infinite about how they’d have to have wand holsters.
--
macXdmg
Monk of the Painda Order
Bard of the College of Sick Beats

Trade thread truedungeon.com/forum?view=topic&catid=61&id=253064#406060
Last edit: by macxdmg.
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Ultra Rare Token Ideas 5 years 2 weeks ago #463

Wand holster
Slotless
All
Treat wands as normal, at the end of a room you may retrieve from the table the last wand you used if it was only used once.

GMs will probably hate this token. I keep thinking about QuickDraw scenes where the two guys who hate one another draw and fire a single round, the winner always does this flourish and puts his gun away. They never had women, that is a different discussion. So this wizard steps up to the line, fires once with her wand and decides it’s not worth it, she puts it away and reaches for spells, scrolls, or other arcane means.
--
macXdmg
Monk of the Painda Order
Bard of the College of Sick Beats

Trade thread truedungeon.com/forum?view=topic&catid=61&id=253064#406060
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Ultra Rare Token Ideas 5 years 2 weeks ago #464

Fiddy wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Fiddy wrote:

Hawk Fingle wrote: What if it worked similar to the Charming set, but ran off Ioun Stones equipped?

UR - Supreme (Offhand something) of the Sage, +2 AC, +1 to Damage/Healing scrolls for every Ioun Stone equipped (Max +7). Bard, Cleric, Druid, Paladin, Ranger, Wizard.

That would be a decent swap for the Shield of the Scholar for melee offhand, would be open to all scroll casters, and combos with ioun stone builds. If it's slotted as a ranged offhand then it doesn't compete and would work with anyone using a two-handed melee, but I don't know what all shook out after the recent Archer's Buckler rules reassessment. No AC bonus and it feels too niche for a UR to me.

Man... That would be a must-have UR token for me. :) Heck, I'd be fine with it as an enhanced 4pt or Relic if people think it's too powerful for a UR. :D


It is a definite must-have for Wizard (they don't get AC in off-hand). And a fairly easy decision for Bards and Druids (Shield of Scholar or Dragonscale only real competition). Clerics and Paladins would have to give up most to use it (with Templar and Redoubt also available).

Why the desire for off hand slot? Why not a different slot that would allow it to work with Shield of the Scholar?


Tokens that are not usable with Staffs of Focus are not must have for Wizards.


Staff of Focus has no impact on scrolls, so for someone going down the path of a scroll-based build, why would Staff of Focus matter?


To use this you would need to spend a free action to drop your staff and equip it.

Then you would need to spend another free action to drop this and pick up the staff before casting again.

“Scroll based builds” are still going to be casting a good amount of stuff from the charachter card. Or - at least I would like a single wizard player to state the contrary.

To make an analogy, this would be like putting a retribution boosting token in the melee mainhand slot. Yes - people want to boost retribution - but they still want to make attack slides.
Last edit: by Matthew Hayward.
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Ultra Rare Token Ideas 5 years 2 weeks ago #465

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Fiddy wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Fiddy wrote:

Hawk Fingle wrote: What if it worked similar to the Charming set, but ran off Ioun Stones equipped?

UR - Supreme (Offhand something) of the Sage, +2 AC, +1 to Damage/Healing scrolls for every Ioun Stone equipped (Max +7). Bard, Cleric, Druid, Paladin, Ranger, Wizard.

That would be a decent swap for the Shield of the Scholar for melee offhand, would be open to all scroll casters, and combos with ioun stone builds. If it's slotted as a ranged offhand then it doesn't compete and would work with anyone using a two-handed melee, but I don't know what all shook out after the recent Archer's Buckler rules reassessment. No AC bonus and it feels too niche for a UR to me.

Man... That would be a must-have UR token for me. :) Heck, I'd be fine with it as an enhanced 4pt or Relic if people think it's too powerful for a UR. :D


It is a definite must-have for Wizard (they don't get AC in off-hand). And a fairly easy decision for Bards and Druids (Shield of Scholar or Dragonscale only real competition). Clerics and Paladins would have to give up most to use it (with Templar and Redoubt also available).

Why the desire for off hand slot? Why not a different slot that would allow it to work with Shield of the Scholar?


Tokens that are not usable with Staffs of Focus are not must have for Wizards.


Staff of Focus has no impact on scrolls, so for someone going down the path of a scroll-based build, why would Staff of Focus matter?


To use this you would need to spend a free action to drop your staff and equip it.

Then you would need to spend another free action to drop this and pick up the staff before casting again.

“Scroll based builds” are still going to be casting a good amount of stuff from the charachter card. Or - at least I would like a single wizard player to state the contrary.

To make an analogy, this would be like putting a retribution boosting token in the melee mainhand slot. Yes - people want to boost retribution - but they still want to make attack slides.


Your retribution analogy is somewhat flawed. Retribution happens on the monster's turn, you still need something to do on your turn (like attack with your weapon). Whereas, in the theoretical scroll build, you are changing the focus of what you do on your turn from "cast spell from card action" for "cast spell from scroll". And most suggestions I've seen for retribution boosting have indeed been offset by reductions in melee capability (giving up slots that currently have melee boosts in them). That is similar to the tradeoff of not equipping something that boosts your normal spellcasting in order to improve your ability to cast spells from scrolls.

I at least get the impression that there are some people interested in trying to get to the point where a scroll-only build is viable at Nightmare (I'll admit I think it is interesting). I think we're pretty far from there, which is why I keep suggesting that if that is what people are trying to get to that they shouldn't put new scroll boosters in the same slots as existing tokens that boost scrolls (whether they are out of print or not). I may be reading too much intent into what people are aiming for though.

I totally understand that scrolls are so far behind the boosts available to card spells that few (any?) are likely to make the trade of a Staff of Focus right now. My comment of "must-have" was in the context of a scroll-focused build, which was my interpretation of what Hawk was aiming towards (which admittedly may not be the case).
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Ultra Rare Token Ideas 5 years 2 weeks ago #466

  • Xavon
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macXdmg wrote:

Xavon wrote:

Xavon wrote: Scroll of Moonlit Flames
Does 10 pts of Fire damage to one target and 5 pts of Sacred damage to one target (Reusable, 1/room)
Usable by: Bard, Cleric, & Wizards


What if instead:

Tome of Moonlit Flames
Does 10 pts of Fire damage to one target and 5 pts of Sacred damage to one target. This counts as a scroll. (1/room)
Usable by: Bard, Cleric, & Wizards


That is a cool idea, any reason you left druids off? If it’s once per combat and an ultra rare any reason the 5 points don’t go to all other enemies? Or 5 fire to one and 5 sacred to all?

Edit
I assume that this is in a world with one tome slot, or they are limited by only one per character. There was concern when wands were infinite about how they’d have to have wand holsters.


Tome slot is confirmed, but not necessarily limited to one (subject to change as always).

Most rare scrolls do 12 damage of one type with no slide/save. So I figured 15 damage, to one, or 10 to one and 5 to another, and reusable was a bit strong for a UR. But no-one is going to use a UR scroll. So I thought making it take one of the Tome slot(s) was a good trade off.

And I left off Druid since they are probably going to be polymorphed. And the cleric needs a nice magic damage option.
Applications programming is a race between software engineers, who strive to produce idiot-proof programs, and the Universe, which strives to produce bigger idiots.  <br /><br />So far, the Universe is winning.
Last edit: by Xavon.
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Ultra Rare Token Ideas 5 years 2 weeks ago #467

How about a Dex-based counterpart to the Medallion of Valhalla? That is, +3 Dex and +4 Con instead of +3 Str and +4 Con? Not every class will have a relic in the neck slot, and not every player will be willing to spend/save for a relic. Might make an interesting set of choices among Valhalla, the Stu-pendous Pendant, and this proposed UR.
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Ultra Rare Token Ideas 5 years 2 weeks ago #468

Hurty Things for Dummies
+3/+3 with 2h weapons
-5 WIS, -2 CHA
Tome Slot
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