TOPIC: Uncommon Token Suggestions

Wade Schwendemann wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote: Jewel of Jotunheim - Neck - All
+1 STR, +2 CON

I could see this at Rare, but maybe that's just me?

If this were rare it would make the gap between Rare and UR neck items +2 STR and +2 CON - that's a large gap compared to other slots?

Looking in the pants slot.

Pants of Quickness: +1 DEX, -1 CON
vs.
UR Kilt of Fatherbane: +6 DEX, -2 STR, -2 CON

So the gap between UC and UR in pants is: +5 DEX, -2 STR, -1 CON

I'm proposing a neck item with a gap from UC to UR of: +2 STR, +2 CON

I think +2 STR, +2 CON is usually better than +5 DEX, -2 STR, -1 CON.

If that's right, then it would mean the proposed token is more "worse" than Medallion of Valhalla than Pants of Quickness is "worse" than Kilt of Fatherbane.

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Wade Schwendemann wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote: Jewel of Jotunheim - Neck - All
+1 STR, +2 CON

I could see this at Rare, but maybe that's just me?

If this were rare it would make the gap between Rare and UR neck items +2 STR and +2 CON - that's a large gap compared to other slots?

Looking in the pants slot.

Pants of Quickness: +1 DEX, -1 CON
vs.
UR Kilt of Fatherbane: +6 DEX, -2 STR, -2 CON

So the gap between UC and UR in pants is: +5 DEX, -2 STR, -1 CON

I'm proposing a neck item with a gap from UC to UR of: +2 STR, +2 CON

I think +2 STR, +2 CON is usually better than +5 DEX, -2 STR, -1 CON.

If that's right, then it would mean the proposed token is more "worse" than Medallion of Valhalla than Pants of Quickness is "worse" than Kilt of Fatherbane.

Ok, well, again your math is sound (of course)
Compare then to necklace of the birch. +1 Str. That's it, at uncommon.

While power creep is great and all, should we not at least try out +1 Str/+1 Con before going to +1/+2?

Wade Schwendemann wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Wade Schwendemann wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote: Jewel of Jotunheim - Neck - All
+1 STR, +2 CON

I could see this at Rare, but maybe that's just me?

If this were rare it would make the gap between Rare and UR neck items +2 STR and +2 CON - that's a large gap compared to other slots?

Looking in the pants slot.

Pants of Quickness: +1 DEX, -1 CON
vs.
UR Kilt of Fatherbane: +6 DEX, -2 STR, -2 CON

So the gap between UC and UR in pants is: +5 DEX, -2 STR, -1 CON

I'm proposing a neck item with a gap from UC to UR of: +2 STR, +2 CON

I think +2 STR, +2 CON is usually better than +5 DEX, -2 STR, -1 CON.

If that's right, then it would mean the proposed token is more "worse" than Medallion of Valhalla than Pants of Quickness is "worse" than Kilt of Fatherbane.

Ok, well, again your math is sound (of course)
Compare then to necklace of the birch. +1 Str. That's it, at uncommon.

While power creep is great and all, should we not at least try out +1 Str/+1 Con before going to +1/+2?

Sure - as a practical matter I don't think the C/UC really matter that much - in a PuG one or the other isn't going to change anything (+1 CON = +2 CON in a PuG 99% of the time).

For collectors and min-maxers they'll want the rare version of this token (assuming one is printed).

Wade Schwendemann wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Wade Schwendemann wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote: Jewel of Jotunheim - Neck - All
+1 STR, +2 CON

I could see this at Rare, but maybe that's just me?

If this were rare it would make the gap between Rare and UR neck items +2 STR and +2 CON - that's a large gap compared to other slots?

Looking in the pants slot.

Pants of Quickness: +1 DEX, -1 CON
vs.
UR Kilt of Fatherbane: +6 DEX, -2 STR, -2 CON

So the gap between UC and UR in pants is: +5 DEX, -2 STR, -1 CON

I'm proposing a neck item with a gap from UC to UR of: +2 STR, +2 CON

I think +2 STR, +2 CON is usually better than +5 DEX, -2 STR, -1 CON.

If that's right, then it would mean the proposed token is more "worse" than Medallion of Valhalla than Pants of Quickness is "worse" than Kilt of Fatherbane.

Ok, well, again your math is sound (of course)
Compare then to necklace of the birch. +1 Str. That's it, at uncommon.

While power creep is great and all, should we not at least try out +1 Str/+1 Con before going to +1/+2?

I wouldn't worry about power creep at common and uncommon at all, because you're not actually creeping the real power of any character except for PUG players with half a dozen boosters. As Matthew has been pointing out, the gap from Rare and under to UR is HUGE, especially in the neck slot. If you power up the commons and uncommons, you could conceivably make normal monsters have more HP, etc, which would lessen the impact of a fully geared player joining a PUG.

Currently, Neck is supposed to be one of, if not the most powerful slot. What options are there at Rare and less? +1 str uncommon? +1 focus item at rare?

I would very much get behind stat boosters in neck at +1 common, +2 uncommon, +3 rare. Ex, +1 con, +2 con, +3 con at the different rareites.

I also see the logic for +1 Con at common, +1 Str +2 Con at uncommon, +2 Str, +3 Con at Rare, which still leaves room for a boost at UR.

Potion Knowledge Thirst - Potion - All
You may cast two scrolls as a standard action
(You must been eligible to able to cast the scrolls in question)

Potion Multishot - Potion - All
You may use two ammo tokens per round

Matthew Hayward wrote: Potion Knowledge Thirst - Potion - All
You may cast two scrolls as a standard action
(You must been eligible to able to cast the scrolls in question)

Potion Multishot - Potion - All
You may use two ammo tokens per round

So you use your standard action to drink Knowledge Thirst and then the next round you can cast 2 scrolls as your standard action??? Why drink the potion? I guess if you drank the potion as a free action from some token that allowed you then by the wording on the token it would allow you to cast 2 scrolls as your standard the same round. Though all double scroll action generally requires the free action for the second scroll.

Similar issue with the Multi shot. You are generally using your standard action to drink. The next round you would be able to attack and use 2. Not really different that attacking twice and using an ammo each time. If you used a free action to drink the potion it would be better, but again that would require another token.

jedibcg wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote: Potion Knowledge Thirst - Potion - All
You may cast two scrolls as a standard action
(You must been eligible to able to cast the scrolls in question)

Potion Multishot - Potion - All
You may use two ammo tokens per round

So you use your standard action to drink Knowledge Thirst and then the next round you can cast 2 scrolls as your standard action??? Why drink the potion? I guess if you drank the potion as a free action from some token that allowed you then by the wording on the token it would allow you to cast 2 scrolls as your standard the same round. Though all double scroll action generally requires the free action for the second scroll.

Similar issue with the Multi shot. You are generally using your standard action to drink. The next round you would be able to attack and use 2. Not really different that attacking twice and using an ammo each time. If you used a free action to drink the potion it would be better, but again that would require another token.

What if the Knowledge thirst said "You may immediately use 2 scrolls you are eligible to use"?

If a player wielding a Stu's stein wants to spend 5 scrolls in one round, I say let them go for it.

Multi shot allows it for the entire room at least.

jedibcg wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote: Potion Knowledge Thirst - Potion - All
You may cast two scrolls as a standard action
(You must been eligible to able to cast the scrolls in question)

Potion Multishot - Potion - All
You may use two ammo tokens per round

So you use your standard action to drink Knowledge Thirst and then the next round you can cast 2 scrolls as your standard action??? Why drink the potion? I guess if you drank the potion as a free action from some token that allowed you then by the wording on the token it would allow you to cast 2 scrolls as your standard the same round. Though all double scroll action generally requires the free action for the second scroll.

Similar issue with the Multi shot. You are generally using your standard action to drink. The next round you would be able to attack and use 2. Not really different that attacking twice and using an ammo each time. If you used a free action to drink the potion it would be better, but again that would require another token.

I had in mind that the effects last for the rest of the room.

I think that's just "how potions work in TD" for things other than cure potions. For example Bull's Strength just says: "+4 to STR (+2 to hit and damage with ... )" - it doesn't mention the duration.

So you could use them in a round of prep or in round 1 with pants/belt of retrieval, pouch of tulz, stu's handy stein.

Wade Schwendemann wrote: What if the Knowledge thirst said "You may immediately use 2 scrolls you are eligible to use"?

If a player wielding a Stu's stein wants to spend 5 scrolls in one round, I say let them go for it.

Multi shot allows it for the entire room at least.

Valid on the Multi shot. I missed that it was per round.

I think the your wording for Knowledge thirst is better but I don't know how that works for rules. Like I said all other double use of scrolls requires both the standard and free action to do so. So this just feels out of place to me. If it was made I would not complain about it though. I would just turn it into ink.

Wade Schwendemann wrote:

jedibcg wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote: Potion Knowledge Thirst - Potion - All
You may cast two scrolls as a standard action
(You must been eligible to able to cast the scrolls in question)

Potion Multishot - Potion - All
You may use two ammo tokens per round

So you use your standard action to drink Knowledge Thirst and then the next round you can cast 2 scrolls as your standard action??? Why drink the potion? I guess if you drank the potion as a free action from some token that allowed you then by the wording on the token it would allow you to cast 2 scrolls as your standard the same round. Though all double scroll action generally requires the free action for the second scroll.

Similar issue with the Multi shot. You are generally using your standard action to drink. The next round you would be able to attack and use 2. Not really different that attacking twice and using an ammo each time. If you used a free action to drink the potion it would be better, but again that would require another token.

What if the Knowledge thirst said "You may immediately use 2 scrolls you are eligible to use"?

If a player wielding a Stu's stein wants to spend 5 scrolls in one round, I say let them go for it.

Multi shot allows it for the entire room at least.

I believe all potions in TD, with the exception of cure and some status removal potions, convey their effect for the entire room.

I don't think you should be able to stack the knowledge thirst one, the full rules-ey description in TDb would be like:

Until the end of this room, your character may perform the following as a standard action: read two scrolls.
You may choose to cast two different scrolls, or the same-named scroll twice.

Thus no matter how many you drink, it doesn't change anything beyond the first, as all they are doing is giving you a new ability for the remainder of the room. Think of it like Potion Leaping Attack - drinking more doesn't let you jump higher - it just conveys a special ability for the room.

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Wade Schwendemann wrote:

jedibcg wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote: Potion Knowledge Thirst - Potion - All
You may cast two scrolls as a standard action
(You must been eligible to able to cast the scrolls in question)

Potion Multishot - Potion - All
You may use two ammo tokens per round

So you use your standard action to drink Knowledge Thirst and then the next round you can cast 2 scrolls as your standard action??? Why drink the potion? I guess if you drank the potion as a free action from some token that allowed you then by the wording on the token it would allow you to cast 2 scrolls as your standard the same round. Though all double scroll action generally requires the free action for the second scroll.

Similar issue with the Multi shot. You are generally using your standard action to drink. The next round you would be able to attack and use 2. Not really different that attacking twice and using an ammo each time. If you used a free action to drink the potion it would be better, but again that would require another token.

What if the Knowledge thirst said "You may immediately use 2 scrolls you are eligible to use"?

If a player wielding a Stu's stein wants to spend 5 scrolls in one round, I say let them go for it.

Multi shot allows it for the entire room at least.

I believe all potions in TD, with the exception of cure and some status removal potions, convey their effect for the entire room.

I don't think you should be able to stack the knowledge thirst one, the full rules-ey description in TDb would be like:

Until the end of this room, your character may perform the following as a standard action: read two scrolls.
You may choose to cast two different scrolls, or the same-named scroll twice.

Thus no matter how many you drink, it doesn't change anything beyond the first, as all they are doing is giving you a new ability for the remainder of the room. Think of it like Potion Leaping Attack - drinking more doesn't let you jump higher - it just conveys a special ability for the room.

Okay that makes more sense. Then I like the token even less at that rarity. So for the cost of an uncommon consumable you get a power that is more powerful than a UR. Lenses of Sage Speed to read 2 scrolls costs both the standard and free action. Granted with LoSS you could read 3 scrolls a round.

jedibcg wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote:

Wade Schwendemann wrote:

jedibcg wrote:

Matthew Hayward wrote: Potion Knowledge Thirst - Potion - All
You may cast two scrolls as a standard action
(You must been eligible to able to cast the scrolls in question)

Potion Multishot - Potion - All
You may use two ammo tokens per round

So you use your standard action to drink Knowledge Thirst and then the next round you can cast 2 scrolls as your standard action??? Why drink the potion? I guess if you drank the potion as a free action from some token that allowed you then by the wording on the token it would allow you to cast 2 scrolls as your standard the same round. Though all double scroll action generally requires the free action for the second scroll.

Similar issue with the Multi shot. You are generally using your standard action to drink. The next round you would be able to attack and use 2. Not really different that attacking twice and using an ammo each time. If you used a free action to drink the potion it would be better, but again that would require another token.

What if the Knowledge thirst said "You may immediately use 2 scrolls you are eligible to use"?

If a player wielding a Stu's stein wants to spend 5 scrolls in one round, I say let them go for it.

Multi shot allows it for the entire room at least.

I believe all potions in TD, with the exception of cure and some status removal potions, convey their effect for the entire room.

I don't think you should be able to stack the knowledge thirst one, the full rules-ey description in TDb would be like:

Until the end of this room, your character may perform the following as a standard action: read two scrolls.
You may choose to cast two different scrolls, or the same-named scroll twice.

Thus no matter how many you drink, it doesn't change anything beyond the first, as all they are doing is giving you a new ability for the remainder of the room. Think of it like Potion Leaping Attack - drinking more doesn't let you jump higher - it just conveys a special ability for the room.

Okay that makes more sense. Then I like the token even less at that rarity. So for the cost of an uncommon consumable you get a power that is more powerful than a UR. Lenses of Sage Speed to read 2 scrolls costs both the standard and free action. Granted with LoSS you could read 3 scrolls a round.

If it worked like LoSS, Uncommon would probably make sense. But I agree with Jedi that it is currently more powerful than LoSS. So I'd say bump it to Rare or change the wording.